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What Alcohol Does to Your Body, Brain & Health | Huberman Lab Podcast #86



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Welcome to the Huberman Lab Podcast,
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where we discuss science and science-based tools
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for everyday life.
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I'm Andrew Huberman,
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and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology
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at Stanford School of Medicine.
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Today, we're discussing alcohol,
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one of the most commonly consumed substances
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on the planet Earth.
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I should mention that both humans and non-human animals
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consume alcohol either for recreational purposes
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because they like the feeling that it gives them
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or for medicinal purposes
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or for other purposes that we'll discuss.
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We are, of course, going to discuss the effects of alcohol
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on our biology,
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ranging from its effects on individual cells,
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on organs and organ systems in our brain and body.
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We are also going to discuss the effects
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of the effects of alcohol.
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That is what being inebriated really does
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to our thinking and our behavior and how it does it.
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And we are going to address what seems to be
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one of the more common questions out there,
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which is whether or not low to moderate amounts of drinking
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are better for our health
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than zero alcohol consumption at all.
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And of course, we will talk about severe alcohol intake,
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binge drinking.
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We will also talk about hangover
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and what science says about ways
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to reduce the effects of hangover,
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either by doing things that are inoculatory,
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meaning before you drink or while you drink,
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as well as things to do if you happen to have a hangover.
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We will discuss some of the genetic differences
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for alcohol and alcoholism,
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and we will discuss alcohol consumption in young people
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and how that can be especially detrimental
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for reasons that I think are going to be quite surprising
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to most of you.
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My goal is that by the end of today's episode,
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you will have a thorough understanding
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of what alcohol does to your brain and body,
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and that you will be able to make informed decisions
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as to whether or not you should be consuming
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zero, absolutely no alcohol,
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small to moderate amounts of alcohol.
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And again, we'll define exactly what that means,
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small to moderate amounts.
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And if you or somebody else that you know
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is consuming excessive amounts of alcohol
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that are clearly detrimental to your health,
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some of the better routes and resources that you can use
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in order to remove that dependence and or consumption.
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I'd like to preface all of that by saying that
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today's discussion is really geared
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toward giving you information.
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It is not about judging alcohol intake
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or lack of alcohol intake.
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I just want you to be able to make
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the most informed decision about alcohol possible.
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I'm pleased to announce that the Huberman Lab Podcast
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is now partnered with Momentus Supplements.
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We partnered with Momentus for several important reasons.
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First of all, they ship internationally
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because we know that many of you are located
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outside of the United States.
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Second of all, and perhaps most important,
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the quality of their supplements is second to none,
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both in terms of purity and precision
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of the amounts of the ingredients.
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Third, we've really emphasized supplements
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that are single ingredient supplements
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and that are supplied in dosages that allow you
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to build a supplementation protocol
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that's optimized for cost,
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that's optimized for effectiveness,
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and that you can add things and remove things
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from your protocol in a way that's really systematic
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and scientific.
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If you'd like to see the supplements
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that we partner with Momentus on,
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you can go to livemomentus.com slash Huberman.
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There you'll see those supplements
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and just keep in mind that we are constantly expanding
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the library of supplements available through Momentus
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on a regular basis.
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Again, that's livemomentus.com slash Huberman.
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Before we get into today's content in detail,
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I just want to answer a commonly asked question
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about alcohol consumption and the brain.
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And the question that so often comes up
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is whether or not low to moderate amounts of alcohol,
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so maybe one drink a day or one or two drinks a day
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kind of thing, whether or not that is bad for your brain,
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in particular, whether or not it causes degeneration
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of neurons or nerve cells.
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Now, the reason that question comes up so often
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is because for many years it's been known
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that high levels of alcohol consumption,
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so 12 to 24 drinks per week or more,
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is certainly causing neurodegeneration,
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in particular of the so-called neocortex,
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the outer layers of the brain
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that house associative memories,
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that house our ability to think and plan,
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that house our ability to regulate our more primitive drives
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according to context, et cetera.
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So to make very clear, drinking a lot,
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so having three or four drinks per night
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every night of the week is clearly bad for the brain.
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A recent study, however, finally addressed the question
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of whether or not low to moderate amounts
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of alcohol consumption can cause brain degeneration.
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The title of the study is
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Associations Between Alcohol Consumption
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and Gray and White Matter Volumes in the UK Biobank,
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the United Kingdom Biobank.
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First of all, gray matter are the neurons,
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it's the so-called cell bodies
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that house the genome of the cells, et cetera,
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and white matter is the connections, the fibers,
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the so-called axons of neurons,
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and it's called white matter
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because that tissue is surrounded
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by a fatty tissue called myelin,
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which allows nerve cells
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to communicate with each other very quickly.
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So what this study did is it looked at the brains,
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both the gray matter and the white matter,
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of more than 30,000, indeed more than 35,000
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generally healthy middle-aged and older adults
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in the United Kingdom
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who were drinking various amounts of alcohol.
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What they found was that even for people
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that were drinking low to moderate amounts of alcohol,
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so one or two drinks per day,
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there was evidence of thinning of the neocortex,
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so loss of neurons in the neocortex and other brain regions.
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And I don't say this in order to cause alarm.
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I tell you this because they are important data
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because they reveal and indeed answer the question
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that has been burning for so long
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as to whether or not chronic alcohol intake
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can disrupt the brain,
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even if the chronic intake is very low.
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Now, we should talk about what the word chronic means
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because many people, when they hear the word chronic,
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think high levels of whatever intake, okay?
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So they think five drinks a night or 10 drinks a night
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or people drinking every night.
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Now, in this study, they looked at people who on average
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were drinking one or two drinks per night.
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So that could be 14 drinks on the weekend.
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It could be one drink per night.
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It could be seven drinks on Friday.
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In other words, on average, one or two drinks per night.
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And I think many people out there are drinking
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somewhere between one and two drinks per night
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or day of the week on average.
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So that would be seven to 14 drinks per week.
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So this is an important study because it says
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that if you're consuming even just seven glasses of wine
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across the week, it's likely that there is going to be
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some degeneration of your brain
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in response to that alcohol intake.
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Although, as mentioned earlier,
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we will talk about some of the things
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that can inoculate against some of that neuronal loss.
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For those of you that are interested in reading the study
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in more detail, we put a link to it
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in the show note captions.
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Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast
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is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford.
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It is, however, part of my desire and effort
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to bring zero cost to consumer information about science
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and science-related tools to the general public.
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In keeping with that theme,
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I'd like to thank the sponsors of today's podcast.
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Our first sponsor is Levels.
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Levels is a program that lets you see
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how different foods affect your health
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by giving you real-time feedback on your diet
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using a continuous glucose monitor.
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One of the most important features
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of our immediate feelings of wellbeing
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and our ability to focus and think and move and have energy,
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as well as our long-term health,
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are our blood glucose levels.
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That is our blood sugar levels.
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And that's because all the cells and tissues of our body,
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and especially neurons, nerve cells,
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rely on glucose for fuel.
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I realize some of you out there are ketogenic,
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and yes, you can use ketones for fuel,
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but the vast majority of people are using glucose
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for fuel in their cells.
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If you want to maintain energy and focus throughout the day,
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you want to keep that blood glucose steady,
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and you don't want it ever to spike or to drop too much.
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So you need to understand how different foods
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and indeed how different activities
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impact your blood glucose.
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I started using Levels about a year ago
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as a way to understand how different foods and exercise
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and supplements and combinations of food and exercise
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and even sequencing, like when I do what,
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how that affects my blood glucose levels,
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has been tremendously informative.
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It's completely reshaped when I exercise, how I exercise,
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when I eat relative to exercise, et cetera.
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So if you're interested in learning more about Levels
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and trying a continuous glucose monitor yourself,
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go to levels.link slash Huberman.
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Again, that's levels.link slash Huberman.
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Today's episode is also brought to us by Eight Sleep.
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I've talked many times on the podcast about the fact
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Indeed, your brain and body have to drop
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by one to three degrees in order to get into sleep
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and to stay in deep sleep throughout the night.
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If your room is too hot or if you're running too warm,
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Today's episode is also brought to us by Roka.
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Let's talk about alcohol and let's just acknowledge
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that human beings have been consuming alcohol
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for thousands of years.
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If you look at the archeological evidence from Mesopotamia,
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you'll find that 5,000 years ago people had wine vessels
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or if you want to know when people first started
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distilling alcohol, much to people's surprise
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that did not first take place in Ireland
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and that's not a joke about the Irish
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that you'll see a lot of claims online
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that the Irish were the first to distill alcohol
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but in fact they were not.
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It was the Chinese that were the first to distill alcohol
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and that took place in China in the first century.
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Alcohol has been used for nutritional purposes.
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So there are cultures that believe and indeed still believe
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that the calories in alcohol are useful.
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Although later we'll talk about how alcohol calories
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are indeed empty calories and what an empty calorie
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really is, why it's called empty.
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Alcohol has been used for medicinal purposes
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because indeed it does kill bacteria
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and as you'll soon find out the fact that it kills bacteria
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because that is absolutely true,
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it also kills the good bacteria in your gut
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and the destruction of that good bacteria in your gut
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can lead to things like leaky gut syndrome
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and has all sorts of issues
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and there are ways to deal with those issues
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and we'll talk about those.
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So alcohol has been used for medicinal purposes,
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it's been used to clean surfaces,
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it's used in my laboratory in order to make up
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so-called reagents to do our experiments
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but most humans have been consuming alcohol
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in order to change their internal state,
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in order to feel differently than they would otherwise.
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That feeling of being drunk or inebriated
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or tipsy or lightheaded is something that many, not all,
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but many humans seem to enjoy and pursue
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even though typically it leads to a feeling
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of being less happy, less motivated,
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more stressed, et cetera, when the alcohol wears off.
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That's pretty incredible, right?
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I mean, we're talking about a substance
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that people have been highly motivated to pursue
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that are still highly motivated to pursue,
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to create and to consume, that they'll spend money on
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and that's despite the fact that it makes them feel good
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and then it makes them feel lousy.
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Now, some of you might be saying,
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well, I drink but I don't drink to excess
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and therefore I don't feel lousy,
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I feel good when I drink and then it wears off
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and it allows me to get through my evening
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and then the next morning I'm ready to go.
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Okay, that very well may be true, I believe those people
link |
00:12:58.480
and as I mentioned at the beginning of the episode,
link |
00:13:00.120
I'm not here to demonize alcohol in any way
link |
00:13:02.720
but I do want to point out what alcohol is
link |
00:13:05.680
and how it creates the effects that it does
link |
00:13:08.580
and then I want to talk about what those effects are
link |
00:13:11.400
when you engage in consuming alcohol
link |
00:13:14.760
even as often as one or two nights per week
link |
00:13:17.560
or let's say you're just somebody who has a drink or two
link |
00:13:19.720
on Friday, maybe a few more on Saturday
link |
00:13:21.740
or maybe you're somebody who consumes all your alcohol
link |
00:13:24.240
one night per week or one night per month,
link |
00:13:25.920
we'll talk about how that's affecting your biology.
link |
00:13:28.380
So let's address what alcohol is
link |
00:13:31.120
and how it affects the cells and tissues
link |
00:13:32.700
and organs of your body,
link |
00:13:33.740
then we'll take a look at some of the epidemiology,
link |
00:13:36.200
that is how many people are consuming alcohol
link |
00:13:38.260
and how much they're drinking
link |
00:13:39.760
and then you will be able I think to get a good sense
link |
00:13:42.700
of how the alcohol that you're drinking,
link |
00:13:44.560
if you're drinking any at all,
link |
00:13:46.880
is impacting your brain and body
link |
00:13:48.480
and the choices you might want to make
link |
00:13:50.180
about how and when to drink alcohol
link |
00:13:52.760
or even if you want to eliminate alcohol altogether.
link |
00:13:55.160
Okay, so some basic chemistry and biology of alcohol
link |
00:13:58.160
and again, I'll make this very clear
link |
00:13:59.720
even if you don't have a chemistry and biology background,
link |
00:14:02.480
because of the structure of alcohol,
link |
00:14:04.800
it is what's called both water soluble and fat soluble,
link |
00:14:08.860
translated into what's meaningful for you,
link |
00:14:11.540
what that means is when you drink alcohol,
link |
00:14:13.840
it can pass into all the cells and tissues of your body,
link |
00:14:17.560
it has no trouble just passing right into those cells,
link |
00:14:20.920
so unlike a lot of substances and drugs
link |
00:14:23.860
that actually attach to the surface of cells to receptors
link |
00:14:26.860
as they're called, little parking spots
link |
00:14:28.360
and then trigger a bunch of downstreams
link |
00:14:31.500
like domino cascades of effects,
link |
00:14:33.860
alcohol actually has its own direct effects on cells
link |
00:14:36.720
because it can really just pass into those cells,
link |
00:14:39.460
so it's water and fat soluble
link |
00:14:41.960
and the fact that it can pass into so many organs and cells
link |
00:14:45.160
so easily is really what explains its damaging effects,
link |
00:14:49.440
I should mention that there are three main types of alcohol,
link |
00:14:52.040
there's isopropyl, methyl and ethyl alcohol
link |
00:14:55.440
and only the last one ethyl alcohol or ethanol
link |
00:14:58.560
is fit for human consumption, however, it is still toxic,
link |
00:15:03.120
okay, it produces substantial stress and damage to cells,
link |
00:15:07.880
I'd love to be able to tell you otherwise,
link |
00:15:09.340
but that's just a fact,
link |
00:15:10.900
ethanol produces substantial damage to cells
link |
00:15:14.400
and it does that because when you ingest ethanol,
link |
00:15:17.720
it has to be converted into something else
link |
00:15:19.520
because it is toxic to the body
link |
00:15:21.640
and there's a molecule inside of all of us called NAD
link |
00:15:25.080
and you may have heard of NAD because it's quite popular,
link |
00:15:27.700
there's a lot of discussion about NAD
link |
00:15:30.140
in the longevity literature right now,
link |
00:15:32.000
NAD is present in all our cells from birth until death,
link |
00:15:34.680
the levels of NAD tend to go down across the lifespan,
link |
00:15:37.400
there are ideas that increasing levels of NAD
link |
00:15:39.720
may extend lifespan, a lot of that is still controversial
link |
00:15:42.300
or at least we should say is ongoing
link |
00:15:43.880
in terms of the research,
link |
00:15:45.240
but nonetheless, when you ingest ethanol,
link |
00:15:47.520
NAD and related biochemical pathways
link |
00:15:50.160
are involved in converting that ethanol
link |
00:15:52.440
into something called acetaldehyde,
link |
00:15:54.040
it's broken down into acetaldehyde
link |
00:15:56.540
and if you thought ethanol was bad,
link |
00:15:58.120
acetaldehyde is particularly bad,
link |
00:15:59.940
acetaldehyde is poison, it will kill cells,
link |
00:16:03.040
it damages and kill cells and it is indiscriminate
link |
00:16:05.840
as to which cells it damages and kills,
link |
00:16:08.960
now that's a problem obviously
link |
00:16:11.840
and the body deals with that problem
link |
00:16:14.000
by using another component of the NAD biochemical pathway
link |
00:16:18.400
to convert acetaldehyde into something called acetate,
link |
00:16:22.680
acetate is actually something
link |
00:16:23.960
that your body can use as fuel
link |
00:16:26.220
and that process of going from ethanol
link |
00:16:29.440
to acetaldehyde to acetate
link |
00:16:32.400
does involve the production of a toxic molecule, right?
link |
00:16:35.400
Again, acetaldehyde is really toxic
link |
00:16:37.600
and NAD and if we want to get technical,
link |
00:16:40.080
it's the NAD to NADH ratio
link |
00:16:43.480
and that chemical step
link |
00:16:46.320
is the rate limiting step to ethanol's metabolism,
link |
00:16:48.680
what does that mean for you?
link |
00:16:50.180
What that means is that if your body
link |
00:16:52.460
can't do this conversion of ethanol
link |
00:16:54.400
to acetaldehyde to acetate fast enough,
link |
00:16:57.180
well, acetaldehyde will build up in your body
link |
00:16:59.540
and cause more damage,
link |
00:17:01.180
so it's important that your body
link |
00:17:03.060
be able to do this conversion very quickly
link |
00:17:05.840
and the place where it does that is within the liver
link |
00:17:09.160
and cells within the liver
link |
00:17:10.560
are very good at this conversion process,
link |
00:17:13.640
but they are cells
link |
00:17:15.080
and they are exposed to the acetaldehyde
link |
00:17:16.960
in the conversion process
link |
00:17:18.600
and so cells within the liver really take a beating
link |
00:17:22.240
in the alcohol metabolism events,
link |
00:17:25.440
so the key thing to understand here
link |
00:17:27.720
is that when you ingest alcohol,
link |
00:17:29.460
you are, yes, ingesting a poison
link |
00:17:31.380
and that poison is converted
link |
00:17:32.720
into an even worse poison in your body
link |
00:17:34.440
and some percentage of that worst poison
link |
00:17:36.440
is converted into a form of calories
link |
00:17:38.500
that you can use to generate energy, generate ATP
link |
00:17:42.200
and the reason why alcohol is considered empty calories
link |
00:17:45.480
is because that entire process is very metabolically costly,
link |
00:17:48.740
but there's no real nutritive value
link |
00:17:51.080
of the calories that it creates.
link |
00:17:53.360
You can use it for immediate energy,
link |
00:17:55.280
but it can't be stored
link |
00:17:56.600
in any kind of meaningful or beneficial way,
link |
00:17:58.800
it doesn't provide any vitamins,
link |
00:18:00.440
it doesn't provide any amino acids,
link |
00:18:02.120
it doesn't provide any fatty acids,
link |
00:18:04.000
it's truly empty calories.
link |
00:18:05.880
I know some people talk about sugar as empty calories,
link |
00:18:07.960
but sugar actually is a far better fuel source
link |
00:18:10.640
than alcohol or acetate,
link |
00:18:13.160
but nonetheless, when you ingest alcohol,
link |
00:18:16.100
some percentage is being shuttled into a worse poison
link |
00:18:19.240
and some is being shuttled into a fuel source.
link |
00:18:22.660
Now, the important thing to understand
link |
00:18:24.400
is that it is the poison, the acetaldehyde itself,
link |
00:18:28.260
that leads to the effect of being inebriated or drunk.
link |
00:18:32.760
I think most people don't realize that,
link |
00:18:34.060
that being drunk is actually a poison-induced disruption
link |
00:18:38.400
in the way that your neural circuits work.
link |
00:18:40.320
And so we should ask ourselves,
link |
00:18:41.960
which neural circuits, what brain areas,
link |
00:18:44.240
what body areas involved in feeling drunk or inebriated?
link |
00:18:47.740
Now, when thinking about this state of being tipsy
link |
00:18:50.040
or happy or really drunk or a little bit drunk,
link |
00:18:53.440
I want to mention something
link |
00:18:54.660
I think most people aren't aware of,
link |
00:18:56.920
and that's the fact that for people
link |
00:18:59.040
that are regular drinkers
link |
00:19:00.680
or that have a genetic predisposition to alcoholism,
link |
00:19:04.920
when they drink, they tend to feel very energized
link |
00:19:08.240
and very good for longer periods of time.
link |
00:19:11.540
Again, people have a genetic predisposition to alcohol
link |
00:19:14.080
or people who are chronic drinkers,
link |
00:19:15.520
or even just, if you recall,
link |
00:19:17.200
chronic doesn't have to mean a ton of alcohol,
link |
00:19:19.460
but they're drinking one or two per night
link |
00:19:21.080
or they're every other night type drinkers
link |
00:19:22.880
or Thursday through Sunday drinkers.
link |
00:19:25.680
Those people typically experience an increase
link |
00:19:28.840
in alertness and mood when they drink,
link |
00:19:31.000
whereas occasional drinkers will have a briefer,
link |
00:19:34.640
meaning less long lasting,
link |
00:19:36.880
period of feeling good when they drink
link |
00:19:38.800
and then more quickly transition into a state
link |
00:19:41.620
in which they're tired or they start losing motor skills,
link |
00:19:44.440
they start slurring their speech.
link |
00:19:47.000
I also want to emphasize this is distinct from tolerance.
link |
00:19:49.620
We'll talk about tolerance later
link |
00:19:50.800
and exactly what tolerance means,
link |
00:19:52.520
but I really want to highlight the fact
link |
00:19:53.900
that when people ingest this poison,
link |
00:19:56.960
because indeed it is poison,
link |
00:19:59.080
the range of effects is very different
link |
00:20:01.040
and you can reliably predict who are the people
link |
00:20:04.120
with a predisposition to alcoholism
link |
00:20:06.400
and who are the people who are more regular drinkers
link |
00:20:09.240
by the contour, the timing of the different effects.
link |
00:20:12.480
And again, people who tend to feel more alert and excited
link |
00:20:16.800
every time they drink, they tend to get a real lift.
link |
00:20:19.560
They become kind of the life of the party
link |
00:20:21.000
and that lasts a long while.
link |
00:20:23.320
Those people are the ones that really have to be careful
link |
00:20:26.040
about predisposition for alcoholism.
link |
00:20:29.080
And those people also need to be careful
link |
00:20:31.620
about their drinking and the amount of drinking
link |
00:20:34.000
that they're doing, even if they're not full-blown alcoholics
link |
00:20:37.420
Now, of course, people who are ingesting alcohol,
link |
00:20:39.800
who are not accustomed to drinking alcohol
link |
00:20:41.120
have to be concerned about drinking alcohol for other reasons
link |
00:20:43.560
because it can impair motor function and judgment, et cetera.
link |
00:20:46.680
But in thinking about the biochemical effects of alcohol
link |
00:20:49.800
and what it's doing to the body,
link |
00:20:51.600
what it's doing in all cases is it's consumed into the gut,
link |
00:20:57.000
goes into the stomach.
link |
00:20:57.840
The liver immediately starts this conversion
link |
00:20:59.700
that we talked about before of ethanol to acetaldehyde
link |
00:21:02.000
to acetate and some amount of acetaldehyde and acetate
link |
00:21:05.040
are making it into the brain.
link |
00:21:06.180
It crosses the blood-brain barrier.
link |
00:21:07.640
Again, the brain has this fence around it
link |
00:21:09.580
that we call the blood-brain barrier or the BBB.
link |
00:21:12.120
Many things, most things thankfully,
link |
00:21:14.640
can't pass across the blood-brain barrier,
link |
00:21:16.800
but alcohol because it's water and fat soluble
link |
00:21:19.040
just cruises right across this fence
link |
00:21:21.040
and into the milieu, the environment of the brain,
link |
00:21:24.220
which is made up of a couple of different major cell types,
link |
00:21:26.340
neurons, nerve cells, and so-called glial cells,
link |
00:21:28.640
which are in between the nerve cells.
link |
00:21:30.640
And we'll talk about the effects on each of those soon.
link |
00:21:33.640
So what happens when alcohol gets into the brain
link |
00:21:35.560
that makes us feel tipsy or drunk
link |
00:21:37.100
and in some people makes people feel really,
link |
00:21:39.980
especially energized and happy?
link |
00:21:42.040
Well, alcohol is indiscriminate
link |
00:21:44.900
in terms of which brain areas it goes to.
link |
00:21:47.540
Again, it doesn't bind to particular receptors,
link |
00:21:49.980
but it does seem to have a propensity or an affinity
link |
00:21:53.920
for particular brain areas that are involved
link |
00:21:55.560
in certain kinds of thinking and behavior.
link |
00:21:57.280
So one of the first things that happens
link |
00:21:59.400
is that there's a slight,
link |
00:22:01.200
at least after the first drink or second drink,
link |
00:22:04.100
there's a slight suppression in the activity of neurons
link |
00:22:07.600
in the prefrontal cortex.
link |
00:22:08.980
This is an area of your neocortex
link |
00:22:11.240
that's involved in thinking and planning
link |
00:22:13.300
and perhaps above all in suppression of impulsive behavior.
link |
00:22:18.300
So if you go to a party and they're serving alcohol
link |
00:22:21.420
and people are consuming drinks,
link |
00:22:22.980
what you'll notice is that a few minutes into that party,
link |
00:22:25.960
the volume of people's voices will increase.
link |
00:22:28.240
And that's because people are simply not paying attention
link |
00:22:30.440
to their voice modulation.
link |
00:22:31.680
As other people start speaking more loudly,
link |
00:22:33.420
other people are speaking more loudly.
link |
00:22:34.640
We've all had this experience, right, of going to a party
link |
00:22:36.560
and then you step outside for a moment and you go,
link |
00:22:38.360
oh my goodness, I was shouting.
link |
00:22:39.680
You come home the next day, you got a sore throat.
link |
00:22:41.400
It might be that you picked up some sort of bug,
link |
00:22:43.200
some virus or something.
link |
00:22:44.600
But oftentimes it's just the fact
link |
00:22:46.520
you've been shouting all night just to be heard
link |
00:22:48.080
because as the prefrontal cortex shuts down,
link |
00:22:50.500
people stop modulating their level of speech quite as much.
link |
00:22:55.040
Also notice that people start gesticulating more.
link |
00:22:57.420
People will start standing up and sitting down more.
link |
00:22:59.760
They'll start walking around more.
link |
00:23:00.880
If there's music on,
link |
00:23:01.700
people might spontaneously start dancing.
link |
00:23:04.000
All of this is because these areas of the prefrontal cortex
link |
00:23:07.160
normally are providing what's called top-down inhibition.
link |
00:23:10.000
They are releasing a neurotransmitter called GABA
link |
00:23:13.160
onto various parts of the brain.
link |
00:23:14.800
They're involved in impulsive motor behavior
link |
00:23:16.680
and thought patterns.
link |
00:23:17.940
And as you shut down the prefrontal cortex,
link |
00:23:20.040
that GABAergic suppression of impulses starts to be released.
link |
00:23:24.440
So people will say things that they want to say
link |
00:23:27.400
without so much forethought about what they're saying.
link |
00:23:30.360
Or they might do things that they want to do
link |
00:23:32.800
without really thinking it through quite as much
link |
00:23:34.880
or they might not even remember thinking it through at all
link |
00:23:37.280
or experience, I should say, thinking it through at all.
link |
00:23:39.280
We haven't talked about blacking out yet
link |
00:23:40.680
in the effects of alcohol on memory.
link |
00:23:42.560
But as long as we're there,
link |
00:23:43.520
I'll just tell you that alcohol has a very strong effect
link |
00:23:46.620
in suppressing the neural networks
link |
00:23:48.280
that are involved in memory formation and storage.
link |
00:23:51.160
This is why oftentimes we forget the events of a night out
link |
00:23:55.000
if we've been drinking.
link |
00:23:56.780
One of the more important things to know
link |
00:23:58.520
about the effects of alcohol in the brain
link |
00:24:01.000
is this disruption in top-down inhibition,
link |
00:24:03.840
but also that areas of the brain
link |
00:24:06.820
that are involved in flexible behavior,
link |
00:24:09.680
sort of considering different options,
link |
00:24:11.200
like I could do A or I could do B.
link |
00:24:12.640
I could say this to them or I could say that.
link |
00:24:14.480
I could say it in that way
link |
00:24:15.600
or I could say it in this way.
link |
00:24:16.600
This might be a little more tactful.
link |
00:24:18.560
Those brain areas basically shut down entirely
link |
00:24:21.680
and people just tend to say what they want to say.
link |
00:24:23.840
So the key thing to understand is that when people drink,
link |
00:24:26.560
the prefrontal cortex and top-down inhibition is diminished.
link |
00:24:31.160
That is habitual behavior
link |
00:24:33.280
and impulsive behavior starts to increase.
link |
00:24:36.100
Now, what's interesting is this is true in the short term,
link |
00:24:39.180
so after people have one or two,
link |
00:24:40.640
maybe three or four drinks,
link |
00:24:42.260
but it's also true that the more often that people drink,
link |
00:24:48.000
there are changes in the very circuits
link |
00:24:50.540
that underlie habitual and impulsive behavior.
link |
00:24:53.640
This is really important to highlight,
link |
00:24:55.160
so much so that I want to drill into it
link |
00:24:56.480
a little bit more deeply.
link |
00:24:58.760
For the person that drinks, say, every Thursday night
link |
00:25:01.720
or every Friday night
link |
00:25:02.800
or goes out only on Saturdays, but every Saturday,
link |
00:25:06.260
there's evidence that there are changes
link |
00:25:08.120
in the neural circuits of the brain
link |
00:25:09.720
that control habitual behavior and impulsive behavior,
link |
00:25:12.800
and they are modified and strengthened
link |
00:25:15.540
in ways that make those people more habitual
link |
00:25:18.280
and more impulsive outside the times
link |
00:25:21.080
in which they are drinking.
link |
00:25:22.700
And when they drink, impulsive and habitual behavior
link |
00:25:26.040
tends to increase even further.
link |
00:25:27.800
This is something that's not often talked about
link |
00:25:30.120
when discussing the effects of alcohol.
link |
00:25:31.840
And we all know the effects of being drunk can be bad,
link |
00:25:36.120
can be bad in terms of judgment, motor coordination,
link |
00:25:39.360
certainly driving drunk is a terrible thing,
link |
00:25:41.680
get you or other people killed, and so on.
link |
00:25:44.600
But rarely do we hear about the changes in neural circuits
link |
00:25:47.640
from just one or two nights of regular drinking.
link |
00:25:52.440
Again, chronic drinking doesn't necessarily mean
link |
00:25:55.120
every day and every night.
link |
00:25:56.600
It could be the person that simply drinks
link |
00:25:58.320
every Thursday or every Friday
link |
00:25:59.580
or just once a week has three or four drinks
link |
00:26:01.220
or maybe even a few more.
link |
00:26:03.000
That person is going to experience
link |
00:26:04.960
a decrease in this top-down inhibition,
link |
00:26:07.600
so an increase in impulsivity and habitual behavior
link |
00:26:09.880
because the break on those behaviors
link |
00:26:11.840
has been removed while they're drinking,
link |
00:26:13.720
but also changes in the very neural circuits
link |
00:26:16.360
that allow habitual and impulsive behavior
link |
00:26:19.000
to occur more readily even when they're not drinking.
link |
00:26:21.480
And if you want to know the actual substrate for that,
link |
00:26:23.680
the cellar substrate, I can briefly describe it.
link |
00:26:25.640
It's really interesting.
link |
00:26:27.040
Again, you don't need to know any biology
link |
00:26:28.360
to understand this.
link |
00:26:29.240
What it does is it increases the number of synapses,
link |
00:26:33.000
the actual points of connection in the neural circuits
link |
00:26:35.300
that control habitual behavior.
link |
00:26:37.780
So there's literally a growth of the neural circuits
link |
00:26:40.600
in your brain that lead to existing habit execution, right?
link |
00:26:44.800
The performance of things you already know how to do
link |
00:26:47.180
and a reduction in the neural circuits,
link |
00:26:49.760
or I should say a reduction in the number of synapses
link |
00:26:52.100
of the contacts within the neural circuits
link |
00:26:54.720
that are controlling behavior.
link |
00:26:56.520
So this again is a not often discussed aspect
link |
00:26:59.000
of alcohol intake.
link |
00:27:00.160
Fortunately, it is reversible.
link |
00:27:02.200
So in animals or humans that undertake a period
link |
00:27:05.800
of abstinence of anywhere from two to six months,
link |
00:27:08.920
these neural circuits return to normal,
link |
00:27:11.260
except in cases where people have been chronically
link |
00:27:13.720
drinking large volumes of alcohol for many, many years.
link |
00:27:16.280
And in those cases, while there is some recovery
link |
00:27:19.160
of brain circuitry after people get sober,
link |
00:27:22.760
meaning completely sober, they stop drinking entirely,
link |
00:27:26.000
there is evidence of long lasting impact
link |
00:27:28.580
of heavy alcohol usage throughout the lifespan.
link |
00:27:31.240
But of course, this doesn't mean that anyone
link |
00:27:32.860
that's suffering from alcoholism or that used to
link |
00:27:34.760
should not continue to focus on their health.
link |
00:27:36.880
You absolutely should, all is not lost.
link |
00:27:39.280
But for people that have been drinking for a lot of years,
link |
00:27:41.000
maybe you went to college and you drank a lot in those years
link |
00:27:43.520
and your neural circuits change.
link |
00:27:45.380
If there's a period in which you don't drink alcohol,
link |
00:27:47.800
again, from two to six months and ideally longer,
link |
00:27:51.580
those neural circuits can then be re-modified
link |
00:27:53.680
back to their original state.
link |
00:27:55.240
So let's consider some of the other neurochemical effects
link |
00:27:57.760
of alcohol in the brain and body.
link |
00:27:59.360
And again, for right now, we're confining the conversation
link |
00:28:02.580
to people that are drinking on average,
link |
00:28:04.560
one or two drinks per night.
link |
00:28:06.300
Now, some people might think that two drinks per night
link |
00:28:07.920
is a lot and a lot of that will depend on body weight.
link |
00:28:10.360
So for instance, people who weigh 110 pounds,
link |
00:28:15.440
for them to ingest two alcoholic drinks
link |
00:28:18.340
is going to be substantially different
link |
00:28:19.820
in terms of the biochemical effects
link |
00:28:21.580
than somebody who weighs 220 pounds.
link |
00:28:24.260
Of course, tolerance will also factor into this,
link |
00:28:26.840
genetic background will also factor into this
link |
00:28:29.480
and indeed whether or not people have eaten
link |
00:28:32.100
will factor into this.
link |
00:28:32.940
So there are a lot of factors and we'll talk about that.
link |
00:28:35.000
For the time being, if you're curious about how food impacts
link |
00:28:38.440
the effects of alcohol and your feelings of being drunk,
link |
00:28:41.360
you may have heard, for instance,
link |
00:28:42.560
that if somebody is inebriated and they want to sober up,
link |
00:28:45.020
they should eat something, turns out that does not work.
link |
00:28:48.080
Here's how it does work, however.
link |
00:28:50.100
If you eat something prior to drinking alcohol
link |
00:28:53.280
or while ingesting alcohol,
link |
00:28:55.800
it will slow the absorption of alcohol into the bloodstream.
link |
00:28:59.700
In other words, you won't feel as drunk as fast.
link |
00:29:02.000
For many of you, this probably comes as no surprise.
link |
00:29:04.240
In particular, if that meal includes carbohydrates,
link |
00:29:07.480
fats, and proteins, okay?
link |
00:29:09.680
The inclusion of all three major macronutrients
link |
00:29:12.800
seems to slow the absorption of alcohol into the bloodstream
link |
00:29:15.640
far more than having any one of those
link |
00:29:18.520
or two of those macronutrients present.
link |
00:29:21.200
Now, if you are already inebriated
link |
00:29:23.700
or you've had a glass of wine or a beer
link |
00:29:25.840
and you eat something,
link |
00:29:28.920
chances are that alcohol has already made it
link |
00:29:30.960
into your bloodstream
link |
00:29:31.800
because it moves into the bloodstream so quickly.
link |
00:29:34.920
Again, it's fat soluble and water soluble,
link |
00:29:37.060
so within minutes, right?
link |
00:29:39.040
If you have an empty stomach,
link |
00:29:40.000
within five to 10 minutes,
link |
00:29:41.560
that alcohol is going to be within your bloodstream
link |
00:29:43.320
and distributed throughout your body,
link |
00:29:44.360
maybe even faster depending on the type of alcohol
link |
00:29:46.640
and your metabolism.
link |
00:29:48.600
But if you're already drunk and you eat something,
link |
00:29:52.240
it's not going to sober you up more quickly,
link |
00:29:53.780
but it certainly will blunt the effects
link |
00:29:55.080
of any additional alcohol that you might consume.
link |
00:29:57.900
And if you're somebody who is concerned
link |
00:30:00.440
about getting too drunk too quick,
link |
00:30:02.160
even from a small amount of alcohol,
link |
00:30:03.400
having some food in your gut can certainly be beneficial.
link |
00:30:06.860
Now, that's food and alcohol and the absorption of alcohol,
link |
00:30:10.240
but let's go back to talking about the biochemical
link |
00:30:13.340
and neurochemical effects of alcohol on the brain.
link |
00:30:15.900
We talked about top-down inhibition
link |
00:30:17.960
and we talked about habitual
link |
00:30:19.400
and impulsive behavior circuitry.
link |
00:30:21.820
There are also dramatic changes in the activity of neurons
link |
00:30:25.880
that control the release of so-called serotonin.
link |
00:30:28.040
Serotonin is a neuromodulator.
link |
00:30:30.060
It changes the activity of neural circuits
link |
00:30:32.840
and many neural circuits,
link |
00:30:34.000
in particular, those involved in mood
link |
00:30:36.000
and feelings of wellbeing.
link |
00:30:37.460
Recently, there's been a lot of interest in serotonin
link |
00:30:39.980
because of a study that was released
link |
00:30:41.280
that showed pretty conclusively
link |
00:30:42.840
that serotonin levels can't really explain depression
link |
00:30:46.680
and depression-like symptoms.
link |
00:30:48.280
I want to make it very clear
link |
00:30:49.440
that although that study did show that serotonin levels
link |
00:30:53.120
are not necessarily associated with depression,
link |
00:30:56.340
the study was interpreted by many to mean
link |
00:30:58.560
that SSRI, selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors,
link |
00:31:01.520
which have the net effect of increasing serotonin,
link |
00:31:04.520
these are things like Prozac, et cetera,
link |
00:31:07.200
that those drugs are somehow not helpful
link |
00:31:10.440
because they increase serotonin
link |
00:31:13.060
and serotonin isn't involved in depression.
link |
00:31:15.960
That logic doesn't really hold together,
link |
00:31:18.320
so I'm going to use this as an opportunity
link |
00:31:19.720
to just clarify what really occurred there,
link |
00:31:22.360
and then we'll talk about how serotonin
link |
00:31:24.000
relates to alcohol consumption
link |
00:31:25.280
in things like feeling good and in depression.
link |
00:31:29.120
The key thing is this,
link |
00:31:30.600
SSRIs can help alleviate depression.
link |
00:31:34.860
That's right, SSRIs can help alleviate depression.
link |
00:31:37.840
They are often not always associated with side effects,
link |
00:31:40.080
dosage is very important, et cetera,
link |
00:31:42.320
but they probably support relief from depression
link |
00:31:47.120
by changing neural circuits,
link |
00:31:48.840
not necessarily by increasing serotonin itself.
link |
00:31:52.080
That is, increasing serotonin with these drugs
link |
00:31:54.440
likely change the neural circuits involved in mood,
link |
00:31:57.480
allowing people to feel better
link |
00:31:58.820
through so-called neuroplasticity,
link |
00:32:00.400
which is the brain's ability to change itself
link |
00:32:02.540
in response to experience.
link |
00:32:03.860
So there's a bit of confusion,
link |
00:32:04.900
and again, I'm using this episode on alcohol
link |
00:32:07.800
to highlight some of the confusion
link |
00:32:08.980
because I think it's timely,
link |
00:32:10.320
because the study just came out
link |
00:32:11.240
and there's a lot of chatter about this out there,
link |
00:32:13.260
that when people are depressed,
link |
00:32:15.680
it's not necessarily because serotonin levels are low.
link |
00:32:18.820
However, if serotonin levels are increased
link |
00:32:21.160
with things like Prozac, Zoloft, and other SSRIs,
link |
00:32:24.080
oftentimes there is, yes, a relief from depression,
link |
00:32:27.800
but that's probably not
link |
00:32:29.240
because of restoring serotonin levels per se,
link |
00:32:31.520
it's probably because serotonin
link |
00:32:33.920
facilitates the changes in neural circuits
link |
00:32:36.820
that need to occur in order for people
link |
00:32:38.440
to feel elevated mood, okay?
link |
00:32:40.320
So again, that's a bit of a tangent and aside,
link |
00:32:42.040
but I do think it's a vital one for people to know about.
link |
00:32:44.700
Again, if you're thinking about taking SSRIs,
link |
00:32:46.540
you're currently taking them and you've heard this news,
link |
00:32:48.840
definitely talk to your doctor.
link |
00:32:50.300
Again, there is great utility for some of these SSRIs
link |
00:32:52.680
and also in conditions like OCD,
link |
00:32:54.740
they've been shown to be very beneficial,
link |
00:32:56.360
so we really don't want to throw SSRIs out
link |
00:32:58.560
as a potentially valuable treatment.
link |
00:33:01.520
Getting back to the effects of alcohol on serotonin,
link |
00:33:05.000
it's very clear beyond any doubt
link |
00:33:08.560
that many of the circuits in the brain
link |
00:33:10.320
that are involved in mood and feelings of wellbeing
link |
00:33:12.800
and also sort of self-image in how we see ourselves
link |
00:33:17.120
employ the neuromodulator serotonin and alcohol
link |
00:33:21.040
when we ingest it and it's converted into acetaldehyde,
link |
00:33:25.520
it goes and that acetaldehyde acts as a toxin
link |
00:33:29.640
at the very synapses,
link |
00:33:31.080
the connections between the serotonergic neurons
link |
00:33:33.080
and lots of other neurons.
link |
00:33:34.440
In other words, when we ingest alcohol,
link |
00:33:36.400
the toxic effects of alcohol disrupt those mood circuitries
link |
00:33:40.220
at first making them hyperactive, that's right,
link |
00:33:43.320
making them hyperactive,
link |
00:33:44.240
this is why people become really talkative,
link |
00:33:46.260
people start to feel really good
link |
00:33:47.360
after a few sips of alcohol, at least most people do,
link |
00:33:50.120
and then as they can ingest more alcohol
link |
00:33:53.080
or as that alcohol wears off,
link |
00:33:54.920
serotonin levels and the activity of those circuits
link |
00:33:57.600
really starts to drop and that's why people feel less good
link |
00:34:00.920
and typically what they do, they go and get another drink
link |
00:34:03.360
and they attempt to kind of restore that feeling
link |
00:34:05.660
of wellbeing and mood.
link |
00:34:06.860
Now, typically what happens is that as people ingest
link |
00:34:09.260
the third and fourth, maybe even the fifth drink,
link |
00:34:12.920
there's an absolute zero chance of them recovering
link |
00:34:15.980
that energized mood, right?
link |
00:34:17.680
Most people as they drink more and more
link |
00:34:19.560
will now start to feel more and more suppressed.
link |
00:34:23.280
The forebrain is now shutting down quite a lot,
link |
00:34:25.520
a lot of the motor cortical areas
link |
00:34:27.460
that control coordinated movement
link |
00:34:29.560
and deliberate movement start to shut down
link |
00:34:31.000
so people start to slur their speech,
link |
00:34:33.000
people start to shuffle their feet,
link |
00:34:34.740
people forget their posture,
link |
00:34:36.660
people start to lean on things,
link |
00:34:38.020
people start passing out on couches,
link |
00:34:40.140
there's a great depression,
link |
00:34:41.640
not depression of the psychiatric depression sort,
link |
00:34:44.960
but a depression of alertness and arousal
link |
00:34:50.480
and eventually people will pass out.
link |
00:34:53.000
Now, I said most people because there's a subset of people
link |
00:34:55.820
that have gene variants or who are chronic drinkers
link |
00:35:00.240
or who are chronic drinkers and have gene variants
link |
00:35:03.480
that as they ingest the third and fourth and fifth drink,
link |
00:35:07.680
what happens?
link |
00:35:08.680
They become more alert, they start talking more,
link |
00:35:11.060
they feel great, they have all sorts of ideas
link |
00:35:12.800
about the fun they could have that night
link |
00:35:14.260
and they're the ones that if you've ever fallen asleep
link |
00:35:17.200
at a party for whatever reason or you're getting tired
link |
00:35:19.320
and you're yawning, you're looking around the room
link |
00:35:20.600
and like these people are still drinking and partying
link |
00:35:22.520
and they're having what seems to be this amazing time,
link |
00:35:26.280
often not always, those are the future alcoholics
link |
00:35:30.480
in the room or those are the people
link |
00:35:32.440
that have a genetic predisposition for alcoholism
link |
00:35:35.560
or those are the chronic drinkers,
link |
00:35:37.080
the people who have built up enough of a tolerance
link |
00:35:39.840
or who have the chemical genetic makeup
link |
00:35:42.500
such that increasing amounts of alcohol
link |
00:35:44.960
make them feel better and better and better
link |
00:35:46.800
and of course, they too have a threshold
link |
00:35:49.120
beyond which their nervous system
link |
00:35:50.680
will start to get diminished and they'll pass out
link |
00:35:53.160
and fall over, et cetera,
link |
00:35:55.340
but that threshold is way, way higher
link |
00:35:57.700
than it is for most people.
link |
00:35:59.680
Now, this is important to understand
link |
00:36:01.860
and it's important to understand
link |
00:36:03.480
because I think everyone should know
link |
00:36:05.280
and recognize their own predisposition
link |
00:36:07.580
and kind of risk in terms of developing alcoholism.
link |
00:36:11.640
It's also important to understand
link |
00:36:12.840
because it relates to the phenomenon of blackout.
link |
00:36:15.440
Many people think that blacking out is passing out,
link |
00:36:18.120
but blackout drunk is when people drink
link |
00:36:21.320
and they're talking and doing things,
link |
00:36:22.720
sometimes sadly or tragically, they'll often drive home
link |
00:36:27.000
or walk home or they'll hop on a bicycle and ride home
link |
00:36:29.240
or they'll go swimming in the ocean,
link |
00:36:30.360
all of course, very dangerous activities
link |
00:36:32.880
to do when people are really drunk or even a little bit drunk
link |
00:36:35.840
in some cases.
link |
00:36:36.680
So these people will do these sorts of things
link |
00:36:38.960
and they do them because they have the energy to do them
link |
00:36:41.640
and they feel good while doing them,
link |
00:36:43.680
but they are doing them while the activity of neurons
link |
00:36:46.240
in the hippocampus, which is involved in memory formation
link |
00:36:48.880
are completely shut off and this is why the next day
link |
00:36:52.560
you tell them, hey, maybe we should talk about
link |
00:36:54.920
what happened last night, like what happened last night?
link |
00:36:57.360
He said, well, do you remember going to the party?
link |
00:36:58.840
Yeah, no, it was great, we did this, we did this
link |
00:37:00.500
and then what, and it's very clear all of a sudden
link |
00:37:04.140
that they have no recollection of all the things
link |
00:37:06.720
they were doing despite being awake.
link |
00:37:08.960
Now, I wish I could tell you that there's some sort
link |
00:37:10.580
of blood test or other biomarker, even a fingerprint test
link |
00:37:13.560
that would allow you to determine whether or not
link |
00:37:15.840
you have a propensity to be one of these drinkers
link |
00:37:18.940
that has a predisposition for alcoholism
link |
00:37:22.400
and if you've ever been blackout drunk
link |
00:37:24.440
and certainly if you've been blackout drunk
link |
00:37:26.280
more than a few times, you should be quite concerned
link |
00:37:29.240
and as we talk more about the more chronic effects
link |
00:37:32.120
and long lasting effects of alcohol consumption
link |
00:37:34.880
a little bit later in the episode,
link |
00:37:36.600
I think it will become clear
link |
00:37:37.520
as to why you should be concerned.
link |
00:37:39.240
But in any case, there is something that can tell you
link |
00:37:43.440
whether or not you might be in that category
link |
00:37:46.240
versus likely not in that category
link |
00:37:48.040
and I alluded to this a couple of times already
link |
00:37:49.740
but I want to be really clear that when people drink,
link |
00:37:54.600
no matter who you are, initially there's that shutting down
link |
00:37:57.380
of those prefrontal cortical circuits,
link |
00:37:59.400
there's a gradual shutting down of the circuits
link |
00:38:01.160
that control memory but then people divide
link |
00:38:03.680
into these two bins and these two bins are the people
link |
00:38:06.680
who after more than a couple of drinks start to feel sedated
link |
00:38:11.060
and the people who after more than a few drinks
link |
00:38:13.200
do not start to feel sedated.
link |
00:38:15.520
Now, of course, there's going to be differences
link |
00:38:17.920
created by how quickly people are drinking,
link |
00:38:20.240
whether or not they're combining different types of alcohol,
link |
00:38:23.120
the types of alcohol, et cetera, but in general,
link |
00:38:26.020
that can predict whether or not you're somebody
link |
00:38:27.680
who has a predisposition for alcoholism or not.
link |
00:38:31.440
One also very interesting finding
link |
00:38:33.600
is that alcohol changes the relationship
link |
00:38:36.820
between what's called the hypothalamus
link |
00:38:39.260
and the pituitary gland and the adrenals.
link |
00:38:41.880
Now, the hypothalamus is a small collection of neurons
link |
00:38:44.120
about the size of a large gumball
link |
00:38:45.720
sits above the roof of your mouth
link |
00:38:47.080
and it houses neurons that are responsible
link |
00:38:48.920
for some incredible aspects of our behavior and our mindset,
link |
00:38:53.080
things like rage, things like sex drive,
link |
00:38:56.340
things like temperature regulation,
link |
00:38:57.980
very primitive functions,
link |
00:39:00.040
including appetite, thirst, et cetera.
link |
00:39:02.560
Alcohol, because it can go anywhere in the brain,
link |
00:39:04.840
remember it's water and fat soluble,
link |
00:39:07.040
has effects on the hypothalamus.
link |
00:39:09.280
The hypothalamus normally provides very specific signals
link |
00:39:13.640
to what's called the pituitary gland.
link |
00:39:15.160
This is a little gland that actually sticks out of the brain
link |
00:39:18.240
but it receives instructions from the hypothalamus
link |
00:39:22.160
and then the pituitary releases hormones
link |
00:39:24.340
into the bloodstream that go and talk to your adrenals,
link |
00:39:26.740
your adrenal glands sit right above your kidneys
link |
00:39:29.600
in your lower back
link |
00:39:30.880
and the adrenals release, as the name suggests,
link |
00:39:33.760
adrenaline, also called epinephrine,
link |
00:39:35.300
and also a molecule called cortisol,
link |
00:39:37.720
which is involved in the kind of longer-term stress response
link |
00:39:40.640
has some healthy effects too on the immune system.
link |
00:39:42.560
Okay, so the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis,
link |
00:39:46.480
I know that's a mouthful,
link |
00:39:47.640
you don't need to remember the names,
link |
00:39:49.120
but the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis
link |
00:39:51.560
maintains your physiological balance
link |
00:39:53.560
of what you perceive as stressful
link |
00:39:55.160
and what you don't perceive as stressful.
link |
00:39:58.140
People who drink regularly,
link |
00:40:00.120
so this again could be just one or two drinks per night,
link |
00:40:02.740
or it could be somebody that drinks just on Fridays
link |
00:40:05.280
or just on Saturdays, or maybe just on the weekend,
link |
00:40:07.720
two to four drinks,
link |
00:40:09.020
well, those people experience changes
link |
00:40:10.740
in their hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis
link |
00:40:14.000
that result in more cortisol,
link |
00:40:15.880
more of this so-called stress hormone
link |
00:40:17.920
being released at baseline when they are not drinking.
link |
00:40:21.600
This is really important.
link |
00:40:23.840
People who drink a bit, and when I say a bit,
link |
00:40:26.000
I don't mean one or two sips
link |
00:40:27.200
or even a glass of wine every once in a while.
link |
00:40:29.720
I mean, again, people that are maybe having
link |
00:40:32.680
one drink a night with dinner
link |
00:40:34.520
and maybe on the weekend a few more.
link |
00:40:36.800
Again, I offer a bunch of different patterns
link |
00:40:38.360
to explain how it could also be
link |
00:40:41.120
two or three drinks on Friday
link |
00:40:42.600
or six drinks only on Saturday.
link |
00:40:44.720
Well, all of those groups experience increases
link |
00:40:47.200
in cortisol release from their adrenal glands
link |
00:40:51.120
when they are not drinking.
link |
00:40:52.440
And as a consequence, they feel more stressed
link |
00:40:56.240
and more anxiety when they aren't drinking.
link |
00:40:59.560
This is a seldom-talked-about effect of alcohol
link |
00:41:03.080
because so often we hear about
link |
00:41:04.520
the immediate effects of alcohol, right?
link |
00:41:06.320
And we've been talking about some of those effects,
link |
00:41:08.200
effects like reducing the amount of stress.
link |
00:41:10.420
I mean, how many times have we heard somebody say,
link |
00:41:12.640
oh, I need a drink, and then they have a drink,
link |
00:41:14.400
and they're like, calm down.
link |
00:41:15.600
Now they can shake off the thoughts about the day's work.
link |
00:41:18.640
They can start to think about things
link |
00:41:20.000
in a maybe more grounded or rational way,
link |
00:41:22.260
or at least they believe that,
link |
00:41:23.400
or they can somehow just relax themselves.
link |
00:41:26.240
Well, while that very well may be true,
link |
00:41:29.020
that it can relax them, when they are not drinking,
link |
00:41:32.280
that level of cortisol that's released at baseline
link |
00:41:34.960
has increased substantially.
link |
00:41:37.180
Again, this relates to a defined neural circuit
link |
00:41:40.600
between brain and body,
link |
00:41:41.680
and it has to do with the ratio of cortisol
link |
00:41:44.220
to some of the other hormones
link |
00:41:45.880
involved in the stress response.
link |
00:41:48.000
We'll provide a reference to the study
link |
00:41:49.520
that describes how all of this works
link |
00:41:51.200
for those of you that really want to delve into it.
link |
00:41:53.200
But let's go back to this issue
link |
00:41:55.480
of those who are prone to alcoholism
link |
00:41:57.500
versus those who are not.
link |
00:41:59.000
Remember, there are people who have genetic variants,
link |
00:42:02.360
that meaning genes that they inherited from their parents,
link |
00:42:05.780
that make it more likely that they will become alcoholics,
link |
00:42:08.900
but there are also people who drink often,
link |
00:42:12.040
who start to experience this increase in alertness
link |
00:42:14.900
the longer they drink across the night.
link |
00:42:17.720
Part of that effect, we think,
link |
00:42:19.880
is because of changes
link |
00:42:21.200
in this hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis.
link |
00:42:23.940
So alcohol is kind of a double hit in this sense.
link |
00:42:27.440
It's causing changes in our brain circuitry
link |
00:42:29.280
and neurochemistry that,
link |
00:42:31.440
at the time in which we're inebriated, are detrimental,
link |
00:42:34.940
and it's causing changes in neural circuitry
link |
00:42:37.120
that persist long past the time
link |
00:42:38.920
in which we're experiencing the feeling
link |
00:42:40.640
of being tipsy or drunk.
link |
00:42:42.720
Now, again, I don't want to demonize alcohol.
link |
00:42:45.000
I'm not saying, oh, you know,
link |
00:42:46.100
if you have a glass of wine now and again,
link |
00:42:47.680
or you drink a beer now and again,
link |
00:42:48.860
or even have, you know, a mixed drink now and again,
link |
00:42:53.300
or a shot, that that's necessarily terrible for you.
link |
00:42:55.900
I certainly do not want that to be the message.
link |
00:42:59.500
What I'm saying is that
link |
00:43:01.120
if people are ingesting alcohol chronically,
link |
00:43:03.320
even if it's not every night,
link |
00:43:05.140
there are well-recognized changes in neural circuits.
link |
00:43:10.080
There are well-recognized changes in neurochemistry
link |
00:43:12.840
within the brain,
link |
00:43:13.920
and there are well-recognized changes
link |
00:43:16.140
in the brain-to-body stress system
link |
00:43:19.560
that generally point in three directions,
link |
00:43:23.980
increased stress when people are not drinking,
link |
00:43:27.880
diminished mood and feelings of wellbeing
link |
00:43:30.240
when people are not drinking,
link |
00:43:32.280
and, as you'll soon learn,
link |
00:43:35.280
changes in the neural circuitry
link |
00:43:37.440
that cause people to want to drink even more
link |
00:43:41.100
in order to get just back to baseline
link |
00:43:43.820
or the place that they were
link |
00:43:45.240
in terms of their stress modulation
link |
00:43:46.980
and in terms of their feelings of mood
link |
00:43:48.220
before they ever started drinking in the first place.
link |
00:43:51.420
So again, I don't want to demonize alcohol,
link |
00:43:54.140
but I do want to emphasize
link |
00:43:55.840
that there are long-term plastic changes,
link |
00:43:58.280
meaning changes in neural circuitry and hormone circuitry,
link |
00:44:01.100
that across a period of several months
link |
00:44:03.780
and certainly across a period of years
link |
00:44:05.380
of the sorts of drinking patterns I described,
link |
00:44:07.500
which I think for most people
link |
00:44:09.180
are going to sound like pretty typical, right?
link |
00:44:11.200
I mean, nothing that I described so far
link |
00:44:12.800
was about drinking a case a night
link |
00:44:14.320
or about binging on alcohol
link |
00:44:16.440
in the way that we often hear about it in the news.
link |
00:44:18.560
These are pretty common patterns of alcohol consumption.
link |
00:44:21.680
I mean, all you have to do is board a transatlantic flight
link |
00:44:24.800
or actually go to an airport on a Sunday afternoon
link |
00:44:27.180
in a sunny area of the US,
link |
00:44:28.480
and people are having three, four, five, six beers, et cetera.
link |
00:44:32.640
Again, personal choice is personal choice.
link |
00:44:34.860
I'm not telling you what to do,
link |
00:44:36.040
but it's very clear that those sorts of drinking patterns
link |
00:44:38.700
are changing neural circuitry
link |
00:44:40.180
and they're changing hormone circuitry,
link |
00:44:42.120
and I'd love to be able to tell you
link |
00:44:43.100
that they're changing them for the better,
link |
00:44:44.320
but they simply are not.
link |
00:44:46.080
They're actually changing them for the worse,
link |
00:44:47.560
and worse is defined as making people less resilient
link |
00:44:49.680
to stress, higher levels of baseline stress,
link |
00:44:52.200
and lower mood overall.
link |
00:44:53.800
Before we continue with today's discussion,
link |
00:44:55.600
I'd like to just briefly acknowledge our sponsor,
link |
00:44:58.120
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link |
00:45:01.320
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link |
00:45:03.600
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link |
00:45:06.040
that also has adaptogens and digestive enzymes.
link |
00:45:09.120
I've been taking Athletic Greens since way back in 2012,
link |
00:45:11.840
so I'm delighted that they're sponsoring the podcast.
link |
00:45:14.240
The reason I started taking Athletic Greens
link |
00:45:15.880
and the reason I still drink Athletic Greens twice a day
link |
00:45:18.800
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link |
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link |
00:45:23.120
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link |
00:45:26.040
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link |
00:45:27.600
The gut microbiome, as many of you know,
link |
00:45:29.340
supports the immune system.
link |
00:45:30.440
It also supports the so-called gut-brain axis,
link |
00:45:32.480
which is vital for mood, for energy levels,
link |
00:45:34.840
for regulating focus,
link |
00:45:36.120
and many other features of our mental health
link |
00:45:37.940
and physical health that impact our daily performance
link |
00:45:40.260
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00:45:43.280
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link |
00:45:44.680
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link |
00:45:47.360
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00:45:48.960
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link |
00:45:50.620
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00:45:54.520
And of course, vitamin D3K2 are vital
link |
00:45:56.720
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link |
00:45:58.800
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link |
00:46:01.240
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link |
00:46:02.400
Again, you can go to athleticgreens.com slash Huberman
link |
00:46:05.640
to claim that special offer.
link |
00:46:07.120
Now I've been talking a little bit
link |
00:46:08.160
about genetic predisposition,
link |
00:46:10.600
but there are a couple of important points
link |
00:46:12.220
I'd like to make about that.
link |
00:46:13.520
First of all, what sorts of genes are involved
link |
00:46:16.280
in setting someone down the path of alcoholism or not?
link |
00:46:20.560
Well, it should come as no surprise
link |
00:46:22.460
that the genes that chronic alcohol usage modifies,
link |
00:46:27.400
they tend to fall primarily in the pathways
link |
00:46:31.000
related to genetic control over serotonin receptors,
link |
00:46:35.280
GABA receptors, remember that top-down inhibition
link |
00:46:37.760
and the involvement of GABA,
link |
00:46:38.960
and no surprise, the HPA, the hypothalamic pituitary axis.
link |
00:46:43.760
All of those, of course, combined with environment,
link |
00:46:46.320
they combine with patterns of abuse, right?
link |
00:46:48.800
We know that if you're in a social setting
link |
00:46:50.240
where a lot of people are drinking,
link |
00:46:51.460
the likelihood that you're going to drink is much higher.
link |
00:46:54.400
Social pressures, trauma, right?
link |
00:46:57.740
Some people will use alcohol to self-medicate
link |
00:46:59.880
to try and turn off their thinking
link |
00:47:01.240
or to deal with trauma, et cetera.
link |
00:47:03.440
So they combine with the environment,
link |
00:47:05.180
but the genes that are in the serotonin synthesis
link |
00:47:08.520
and receptor synthesis pathway, GABA and HPA axis,
link |
00:47:12.480
combined with environmental pressures
link |
00:47:14.720
to give rise to alcohol use disorders.
link |
00:47:18.200
So there's a fairly coherent picture that we have here,
link |
00:47:21.120
right?
link |
00:47:21.960
This is not a case where, for instance,
link |
00:47:24.120
people that have a lot of the enzyme for metabolizing alcohol
link |
00:47:27.060
which we'll talk about in a minute,
link |
00:47:28.080
alcohol dehydrogenase,
link |
00:47:30.000
it's not like they are necessarily
link |
00:47:32.160
the people that become alcoholics.
link |
00:47:33.420
Whereas certainly in certain cultures,
link |
00:47:35.600
certain Asian cultures in particular,
link |
00:47:37.840
there are gene differences that lead them
link |
00:47:40.720
to have low levels of alcohol dehydrogenase.
link |
00:47:42.640
There are actually people who have
link |
00:47:43.480
so little alcohol dehydrogenase
link |
00:47:45.160
that when they ingest alcohol,
link |
00:47:46.600
they get very red and they just feel sick.
link |
00:47:48.560
So if you're somebody that has a sip of alcohol
link |
00:47:50.080
and you just feel horrible, it makes you feel nauseous,
link |
00:47:52.320
chances are you have gene variants that create a situation
link |
00:47:56.120
where you're not making very much alcohol dehydrogenase,
link |
00:47:59.000
you just simply can't metabolize alcohol,
link |
00:48:01.080
so you just get a rapid buildup
link |
00:48:02.600
of the toxic effects of alcohol, the acetaldehyde,
link |
00:48:05.640
you're not converting it into those empty calories.
link |
00:48:08.400
But in cultures where you have a lot of genetic variants
link |
00:48:12.600
and genes expressed in people
link |
00:48:14.480
where they have a lot of alcohol dehydrogenase,
link |
00:48:16.580
sure, they can drink more
link |
00:48:18.400
and they're converting more of that alcohol
link |
00:48:20.160
from its toxic form to a non-toxic form.
link |
00:48:23.080
And yes, of course, you will observe more alcoholism
link |
00:48:25.960
in those communities because they're drinking more,
link |
00:48:28.520
but I do want to emphasize that the environmental factors
link |
00:48:31.560
are playing a strong role there too,
link |
00:48:32.960
because if you can drink more, you're likely to drink more.
link |
00:48:35.360
If you're somebody that feels sick immediately from drinking,
link |
00:48:37.860
it's likely that you're not going to engage
link |
00:48:39.180
in alcohol consumption,
link |
00:48:40.680
especially if these things are genetically related
link |
00:48:42.960
and of course, genes and culture and location in the world
link |
00:48:45.520
tend to run together.
link |
00:48:47.040
So do you have the gene for alcoholism?
link |
00:48:50.920
Well, there isn't one single gene.
link |
00:48:53.040
Chances are if you have an immediate relative
link |
00:48:55.880
who's a chronic abuser of alcohol
link |
00:48:58.140
or several relatives who are chronic abusers of alcohol,
link |
00:49:01.500
well, that's going to predispose you to be an alcoholic.
link |
00:49:05.140
But since you don't know which genes you express
link |
00:49:07.360
unless you do genetic testing and those things are available
link |
00:49:09.920
but most people aren't doing that,
link |
00:49:11.800
this assay, if you will, and it's not an assay,
link |
00:49:15.100
as we say, an assay is a test that you run in the lab
link |
00:49:17.920
to determine something.
link |
00:49:19.420
And it's not one that I recommend
link |
00:49:20.720
that you go drink in order to do.
link |
00:49:22.400
But if you've noticed that you or somebody else
link |
00:49:24.720
is somebody who can drink a lot throughout the night
link |
00:49:26.640
and have increased energy
link |
00:49:27.640
and can just drink and drink a drink,
link |
00:49:29.900
and especially if there's blackout episodes,
link |
00:49:32.280
not remembering things the next day
link |
00:49:33.600
despite being alert throughout the entire night and so on,
link |
00:49:36.560
well, then I would be very concerned
link |
00:49:38.520
that you might actually have a genetic variant
link |
00:49:40.280
predisposing you to alcoholism.
link |
00:49:42.020
The other thing that predisposes people
link |
00:49:43.760
to abuse of alcohol is age.
link |
00:49:47.360
People who start drinking at younger ages
link |
00:49:51.040
are greatly predisposed to developing alcohol dependence
link |
00:49:55.760
regardless of your family history of alcoholism, okay?
link |
00:49:58.640
So I'm going to repeat that.
link |
00:49:59.640
People who start drinking younger
link |
00:50:01.640
are at great risk for developing alcoholism
link |
00:50:04.600
even if they don't have alcoholism in their family.
link |
00:50:06.880
Now, of course, you don't have to be an epidemiologist
link |
00:50:09.560
to understand that if you grew up in a family of drinkers
link |
00:50:12.320
and alcohol is everywhere,
link |
00:50:13.840
and especially if there's peer pressure
link |
00:50:15.160
or lack of oversight,
link |
00:50:16.760
then there's going to be a higher tendency
link |
00:50:19.240
or a higher probability, I should say,
link |
00:50:21.080
that you will start drinking at a younger age.
link |
00:50:23.160
However, even people that grow up
link |
00:50:25.840
nowhere near their relatives,
link |
00:50:27.660
if they start drinking at a young age,
link |
00:50:29.540
so for instance, at 13 or younger or 14 or 15,
link |
00:50:33.360
there's a much higher probability
link |
00:50:34.640
that they're going to develop
link |
00:50:36.040
a long-lasting dependence on alcohol.
link |
00:50:38.920
People who take their first sip of alcohol later,
link |
00:50:42.660
15, 16, or one would hope even later,
link |
00:50:44.800
I can say one would hope
link |
00:50:45.720
because I'm now of that age and generation
link |
00:50:47.840
where you think about all the things that young people do
link |
00:50:51.260
and you go, oh gosh, if they only would wait
link |
00:50:53.120
or if they only would abstain,
link |
00:50:55.160
it's just what happens.
link |
00:50:56.000
I don't know, there's some neural circuit for that
link |
00:50:57.280
that I can't explain yet.
link |
00:50:58.560
But people who, for instance,
link |
00:51:00.680
drink only once they reach legal age of drinking,
link |
00:51:03.240
which in the US, I believe in every state is 21 years old,
link |
00:51:06.740
if they take their first drink at 21,
link |
00:51:08.600
the probability that they'll go on
link |
00:51:10.040
to develop full-blown alcohol dependence
link |
00:51:12.240
or alcohol use disorder as it's called, AUD, is very low.
link |
00:51:15.680
Now, a subset of them will
link |
00:51:16.760
because they have such a strong genetic predisposition
link |
00:51:19.240
or maybe life circumstances create a pattern
link |
00:51:22.500
in which they become a chronic drinker.
link |
00:51:24.460
But I found this very interesting.
link |
00:51:26.240
Genes matter, but also the age
link |
00:51:29.160
in which somebody starts drinking really matters.
link |
00:51:32.240
Now, whether or not that's because there are changes
link |
00:51:34.160
in neural circuitry as a consequence of that drinking
link |
00:51:37.040
that make people want to seek out more and more alcohol,
link |
00:51:40.120
or whether or not there's some other effect,
link |
00:51:42.220
maybe it's a change in hormones, et cetera,
link |
00:51:44.460
that predisposes those young drinkers to become
link |
00:51:47.280
chronic drinkers or even full-blown alcoholics,
link |
00:51:49.560
certainly developing alcohol use disorder.
link |
00:51:51.920
There's definition for that.
link |
00:51:52.880
We can talk about it.
link |
00:51:53.700
It involves the amount of drinking
link |
00:51:55.520
over a certain period of time, et cetera.
link |
00:51:57.860
So it's very clear that drinking early in life
link |
00:52:00.460
creates a propensity for the development
link |
00:52:03.240
of alcohol use disorder later in life.
link |
00:52:06.460
And while there is a genetic component
link |
00:52:09.000
to developing alcohol use disorder,
link |
00:52:11.840
I find it very interesting that if people
link |
00:52:14.120
who have those gene variants delay their onset of drinking,
link |
00:52:18.440
well, then the probability that they'll develop
link |
00:52:20.080
full-blown alcohol use disorder drops as well.
link |
00:52:23.080
So again, it's genes and environments,
link |
00:52:24.860
not an either or, and there's no single gene for alcoholism.
link |
00:52:28.120
Well, I promise you, I will also talk about
link |
00:52:30.240
some of the documented positive effects of alcohol.
link |
00:52:33.600
Although they are very few and far between, they do exist.
link |
00:52:37.440
But before I do that, I would be remiss
link |
00:52:39.640
if I didn't emphasize some more of the terrible things
link |
00:52:42.680
that alcohol does and the way that it does it.
link |
00:52:45.300
And for those of you that enjoy alcohol,
link |
00:52:48.080
I, again, I really, I like to say I feel guilty
link |
00:52:51.680
about telling you this because I know
link |
00:52:53.240
how much some people enjoy a good drink
link |
00:52:55.040
every once in a while, and I say a good drink
link |
00:52:56.520
because some people do like the taste of alcohol.
link |
00:52:59.200
I suppose I lucked out in that I don't really like
link |
00:53:01.060
the taste of alcohol and that just puts me to sleep,
link |
00:53:03.120
but I know that people do enjoy it.
link |
00:53:04.720
And I do want to point out that there is zero evidence
link |
00:53:09.720
that, you know, provided somebody is of drinking age,
link |
00:53:14.120
or certainly not in the stage of brain development,
link |
00:53:17.360
that having one drink or two drinks every now and again,
link |
00:53:20.880
meaning every three or four weeks or once a month,
link |
00:53:23.920
that is not going to cause major health concerns
link |
00:53:27.520
or major health issues for most people.
link |
00:53:30.080
I suppose if you have zero
link |
00:53:32.280
or very little alcohol dehydrogenates,
link |
00:53:34.160
it might make you feel sick,
link |
00:53:34.980
but then you're probably not the kind of person
link |
00:53:36.360
that's going to be drinking at all.
link |
00:53:38.280
So again, if you enjoy alcoholic drinks,
link |
00:53:41.080
I'm not trying to take them away from you by any means,
link |
00:53:46.160
but you should know what drinking does
link |
00:53:48.400
if you're consuming it in this kind
link |
00:53:50.160
of typical chronic pattern, as we can now refer to it,
link |
00:53:52.680
which is that one or two a night,
link |
00:53:54.920
or a few stacked up on Friday
link |
00:53:58.660
and maybe three or four on Saturday,
link |
00:54:00.360
this kind of pattern of drinking, which is quite common.
link |
00:54:03.400
And one of the more serious effects
link |
00:54:04.920
that we should think about is the impact
link |
00:54:07.080
on the so-called gut-brain axis,
link |
00:54:08.520
or for sake of today's discussion, the gut-liver-brain axis.
link |
00:54:12.200
I don't think the gut-liver-brain axis
link |
00:54:13.740
has ever been discussed on this podcast.
link |
00:54:15.340
Maybe any podcast, although the moment I say that,
link |
00:54:17.600
I'm going to, you know, the gut-liver-brain axis,
link |
00:54:20.840
people are going to come after me
link |
00:54:21.880
with, I suppose, gut, liver, brain, and brains.
link |
00:54:24.440
In any event, you have a brain, you have a gut.
link |
00:54:29.200
That gut runs from your throat
link |
00:54:31.320
down to the end of your intestine.
link |
00:54:36.040
Your gut and your brain communicate
link |
00:54:38.000
by way of nerve cells, neurons, and nerve connections,
link |
00:54:41.340
the vagus nerve in particular,
link |
00:54:43.220
and by way of chemical signaling.
link |
00:54:45.680
Your gut also communicates by way of chemical signaling,
link |
00:54:48.340
and believe it or not,
link |
00:54:49.180
by way of neural signaling to your liver.
link |
00:54:52.380
And as we talked about earlier,
link |
00:54:53.820
the liver is the first site in which alcohol
link |
00:54:56.780
is broken down and metabolized into its component parts.
link |
00:55:01.500
The liver is also communicating with the brain
link |
00:55:04.280
through chemical signaling and neural signaling.
link |
00:55:06.900
So we have the gut-liver-brain axis.
link |
00:55:10.240
And what you find is that people who ingest alcohol
link |
00:55:14.880
at any amount are inducing a disruption
link |
00:55:19.000
in the so-called gut microbiome,
link |
00:55:21.060
the trillions of little micro-bacteria
link |
00:55:23.980
that take resident in your gut
link |
00:55:25.420
and that live inside you all the time
link |
00:55:26.820
and that help support your immune system
link |
00:55:28.300
and that literally signal by way of electrical signals
link |
00:55:31.920
and chemical signals to your brain
link |
00:55:33.940
to increase the release of things like serotonin
link |
00:55:36.480
and dopamine and regulate your mood
link |
00:55:38.100
generally in positive ways.
link |
00:55:39.580
Well, alcohol really disrupts those bacteria.
link |
00:55:41.980
And this should come as no surprise.
link |
00:55:43.160
I mean, earlier we talked about this and it's well-known.
link |
00:55:45.240
If you want to sterilize something,
link |
00:55:47.260
you want to kill the bacteria, you pour alcohol on it.
link |
00:55:50.060
And I can remember scraping myself or cutting myself.
link |
00:55:53.840
I was always injuring myself when I was a kid.
link |
00:55:55.820
And the moment they take out the peroxide,
link |
00:55:58.460
you're like, oh boy, here it comes.
link |
00:55:59.580
But if there's no peroxide around
link |
00:56:01.340
and you've got a wound there and you need to clean it out,
link |
00:56:03.380
yeah, they'll use alcohol,
link |
00:56:04.940
which I do not recommend by the way.
link |
00:56:06.460
That's one of the harshest ways to clean a wound.
link |
00:56:08.600
But for centuries, thousands of years really,
link |
00:56:11.020
alcohol has been used in order to clean things
link |
00:56:13.940
and kill bacteria.
link |
00:56:15.620
So alcohol kills bacteria and it is indiscriminate
link |
00:56:19.700
with respect to which bacteria it kills.
link |
00:56:22.180
So when we ingest alcohol and it goes into our gut,
link |
00:56:24.420
it kills a lot of the healthy gut microbiota.
link |
00:56:27.820
At the same time, the metabolism of alcohol in the liver,
link |
00:56:30.940
which you now understand that pathway involving NAD,
link |
00:56:33.900
acetaldehyde and acetate, that pathway is pro-inflammatory.
link |
00:56:40.800
So it's increasing the release of inflammatory cytokines,
link |
00:56:43.840
things like IL-6, et cetera, tumor necrosis factor alpha.
link |
00:56:47.820
If you'd like to learn more about the immune system,
link |
00:56:49.380
we did an episode all about the immune system.
link |
00:56:51.460
You can find it at hubermanlab.com.
link |
00:56:52.940
It'll teach you all the basics of what are cytokines,
link |
00:56:55.420
what are mast cells, et cetera.
link |
00:56:57.500
In any event, all these pro-inflammatory molecules,
link |
00:57:02.080
those are being released.
link |
00:57:03.920
You've now got disruption of the gut microbiota.
link |
00:57:07.340
As a consequence, the lining of the gut is disrupted
link |
00:57:10.500
and you develop at least transiently leaky gut.
link |
00:57:14.980
That is bacteria that exists in the gut,
link |
00:57:17.420
which are bad bacteria,
link |
00:57:18.700
can now pass out of the gut into the bloodstream.
link |
00:57:20.780
So you've got a two hit kind of model here.
link |
00:57:23.020
In biology, we talk about two hit models
link |
00:57:25.420
that it's kind of a one plus one equals four.
link |
00:57:27.900
And it's generally when you hear two hit,
link |
00:57:29.300
it's not a good thing.
link |
00:57:30.700
So you've got bad bacteria from partially broken down food
link |
00:57:35.180
moving out of the gut.
link |
00:57:36.260
The good bacteria in the gut have been killed.
link |
00:57:38.340
You might say, why doesn't the alcohol
link |
00:57:39.740
kill the bad bacteria in the gut?
link |
00:57:41.980
Well, the bad bacteria that are from partially digested food
link |
00:57:47.060
oftentimes escape the gut
link |
00:57:49.380
before the alcohol can disrupt them.
link |
00:57:52.420
And so now you've got leaks in the gut wall.
link |
00:57:55.380
You've got the release of this bad bacteria.
link |
00:57:57.180
You've got inflammatory cytokines
link |
00:57:59.260
and other things being released from the liver.
link |
00:58:01.220
And they are able to get into the brain
link |
00:58:03.780
through what's called a neuro-immune signaling.
link |
00:58:06.440
And what's really bizarre in terms of the way
link |
00:58:08.860
that this manifests in the brain.
link |
00:58:10.740
I mean, it's not the way I would have done it.
link |
00:58:12.840
But then again, as I always say,
link |
00:58:14.160
I wasn't consulted at the design phase.
link |
00:58:16.660
And anyone who says they did,
link |
00:58:17.680
you should be very skeptical of them.
link |
00:58:20.420
The net effect of this is actually to disrupt
link |
00:58:24.020
the neural circuits that control regulation
link |
00:58:26.380
of alcohol intake.
link |
00:58:27.700
And the net effect of that is increased alcohol consumption.
link |
00:58:32.340
So this is just terrible, right?
link |
00:58:33.740
I mean, so you're taking in something
link |
00:58:35.980
that disrupts two systems, the gut microbiota,
link |
00:58:38.780
and it disrupts in two ways.
link |
00:58:39.820
It's killing the good gut microbiota,
link |
00:58:41.900
and it's allowing the bad bacteria
link |
00:58:45.820
to move from the gut into the bloodstream.
link |
00:58:47.480
You've also got pro-inflammatory cytokines
link |
00:58:49.700
coming from the liver.
link |
00:58:51.020
And those converge or arrive in the brain
link |
00:58:55.060
and create a system in which the neural circuits
link |
00:58:58.260
cause more drinking.
link |
00:59:00.120
That's a bad situation.
link |
00:59:01.460
And this is why people who drink regularly,
link |
00:59:04.000
even if it's not a ton of alcohol,
link |
00:59:06.760
again, of the sorts of patterns of drinking
link |
00:59:08.420
I talked about before,
link |
00:59:09.260
and certainly for those that are chronic heavy drinkers,
link |
00:59:12.560
what you end up with is a situation
link |
00:59:14.300
in which you have inflammation
link |
00:59:15.940
in multiple places in the brain and body,
link |
00:59:17.940
and the desire to drink even more
link |
00:59:20.300
and to further exacerbate that inflammation
link |
00:59:22.300
and the gut leakiness.
link |
00:59:24.100
So this is basically a terrible scenario
link |
00:59:26.240
for the gut-liver-brain axis.
link |
00:59:28.580
And it's especially prevalent
link |
00:59:29.860
in so-called alcohol use disorder.
link |
00:59:31.380
Again, people that are ingesting
link |
00:59:32.380
somewhere between 12 and 24 drinks per week.
link |
00:59:34.920
For those of you that are interested
link |
00:59:36.100
in learning more about the gut-liver-brain axis
link |
00:59:38.180
and in particular alcohol use disorder,
link |
00:59:40.100
I'll provide a link in the show note captions.
link |
00:59:42.260
There's a wonderful review on this that details that.
link |
00:59:45.540
But on the positive side,
link |
00:59:47.440
it points to the possibility that at least some,
link |
00:59:50.040
again, at least some of the negative effects
link |
00:59:52.600
of alcohol consumption,
link |
00:59:53.640
whether or not you're somebody
link |
00:59:54.740
who's currently ingesting alcohol
link |
00:59:56.980
or who used to ingest alcohol
link |
00:59:58.300
and is trying to so-called repair these systems
link |
01:00:00.420
of the brain and body,
link |
01:00:01.520
whether or not replenishing the gut microbiota
link |
01:00:03.940
is going to be beneficial.
link |
01:00:04.840
And we know that there are ways to do that.
link |
01:00:07.020
And we know that there's at least some promise
link |
01:00:09.060
for the ability for the system to repair itself.
link |
01:00:11.800
How does one do that?
link |
01:00:13.100
Well, I've talked before about this on the podcast,
link |
01:00:15.220
but studies done by colleagues of mine at Stanford,
link |
01:00:17.700
Justin Sonnenberg, who's been on this podcast as a guest,
link |
01:00:20.040
an amazing episode all about the gut microbiome
link |
01:00:22.100
and his collaborator, Chris Garner,
link |
01:00:23.700
also at Stanford School of Medicine
link |
01:00:25.820
have explored not alcoholism,
link |
01:00:28.780
but what are ways to improve the gut microbiota
link |
01:00:32.860
in particular to reduce
link |
01:00:34.660
the production of inflammatory cytokines
link |
01:00:38.460
and to adjust what's called the inflammatome.
link |
01:00:40.540
You've heard of the genome and the proteome, et cetera.
link |
01:00:43.080
Well, the inflammatome is the total array
link |
01:00:46.900
or at least the near total array of genes and proteins
link |
01:00:49.960
that control inflammation.
link |
01:00:51.340
How can you reduce inflammation
link |
01:00:52.740
and make that inflammatome healthier?
link |
01:00:55.160
Well, they've shown that two to four servings
link |
01:00:57.980
of fermented foods per day,
link |
01:00:59.620
and here I'm not referring to fermented alcohol,
link |
01:01:01.660
I'm talking about low sugar fermented foods,
link |
01:01:03.300
so things like kimchi, sauerkraut, natto,
link |
01:01:06.560
for those of you that like Japanese food.
link |
01:01:09.940
There are others, I know things like kefir,
link |
01:01:12.300
things like yogurts that have a lot of active bacteria,
link |
01:01:15.580
again, low sugar varieties of all these things.
link |
01:01:19.020
Those are terrific at reducing inflammatory markers
link |
01:01:23.040
and at improving the gut microbiome.
link |
01:01:25.780
One could imagine that either inoculating oneself
link |
01:01:28.960
from some of the effects of alcohol,
link |
01:01:30.640
although I'd prefer that people
link |
01:01:31.560
just not drink alcohol chronically, frankly,
link |
01:01:34.500
or if somebody is trying to repair their gut microbiome
link |
01:01:37.140
because they ingested a lot of alcohol
link |
01:01:39.500
or because they had a lot of these inflammatory cytokines
link |
01:01:41.620
for many years or even a short period of time,
link |
01:01:44.400
regular ingestion of two to four servings
link |
01:01:46.580
of these fermented foods can be quite beneficial.
link |
01:01:51.020
I want to make it clear that has not been examined
link |
01:01:53.180
specifically in the context of alcohol use disorder,
link |
01:01:57.140
but because a huge component of the negative effects
link |
01:02:00.620
of alcohol use disorder are based
link |
01:02:02.700
in this gut-liver-brain axis and disruption
link |
01:02:04.500
of the gut microbiome and the inflammatory cytokines,
link |
01:02:07.080
it stands to reason that things that are well-established
link |
01:02:10.220
to improve inflammation status,
link |
01:02:12.920
in other words, reduce inflammation,
link |
01:02:14.580
such as ingesting two to four servings
link |
01:02:16.220
of low-sugar fermented foods per day,
link |
01:02:19.540
makes sense in terms of trying to repair
link |
01:02:21.460
or replenish the system.
link |
01:02:23.220
One could also imagine taking probiotics or prebiotics.
link |
01:02:25.820
Certainly that would work as well,
link |
01:02:27.780
although I've sort of favored the discussion
link |
01:02:29.780
around fermented foods and replenishment
link |
01:02:31.620
of the gut microbiome,
link |
01:02:32.940
mostly because there are more studies
link |
01:02:35.860
that have examined that in humans
link |
01:02:37.540
and because of the direct relationship
link |
01:02:39.500
that's been established between doing that
link |
01:02:41.140
and reducing negative markers within the inflammatome.
link |
01:02:44.280
And I should mention along the lines of repair and recovery,
link |
01:02:47.160
I put out a question on Twitter the other day.
link |
01:02:49.240
I said, what do you want to know about alcohol?
link |
01:02:51.140
I got more than a thousand questions,
link |
01:02:53.260
and we'll take some more of those questions
link |
01:02:54.540
a little later in the episode.
link |
01:02:55.480
But one of the things I noticed
link |
01:02:56.480
is that many of the questions, hundreds in fact,
link |
01:02:59.980
related to the question of,
link |
01:03:02.460
well, if I drank a lot previously, am I doomed?
link |
01:03:05.780
Can I reverse the negative effects?
link |
01:03:07.400
Or, you know, I'm trying to drink less
link |
01:03:09.540
and I'm trying to improve my health as I do that.
link |
01:03:11.860
What should I do?
link |
01:03:12.700
Well, certainly focusing a bit on the gut microbiome
link |
01:03:16.100
ought to be useful.
link |
01:03:17.540
The other thing I should mention is
link |
01:03:19.220
as people wean themselves off alcohol,
link |
01:03:21.040
even if they're not full-blown alcoholics
link |
01:03:23.300
or have alcohol use disorder,
link |
01:03:24.980
they should understand that that increase in cortisol
link |
01:03:28.900
that we talked about earlier
link |
01:03:29.880
that leads to lower stress threshold
link |
01:03:32.020
and greater feelings of anxiety and stress,
link |
01:03:35.680
that's going to be present
link |
01:03:36.940
and it's going to take some time to dissipate.
link |
01:03:39.280
So for some people, it might even just be helpful to realize
link |
01:03:42.600
that as you try and wean yourself off alcohol
link |
01:03:45.520
or maybe even go cold turkey,
link |
01:03:47.220
that increased anxiety and feelings of stress
link |
01:03:51.340
should be expected.
link |
01:03:52.620
And in that case, I would point you to an episode
link |
01:03:54.400
that we did on master stress.
link |
01:03:55.940
You can find that again at hubermanlab.com.
link |
01:03:57.720
It's got a ton of behavioral, nutritional,
link |
01:03:59.580
supplementation-based, exercise-based,
link |
01:04:01.600
I suppose exercise is behavioral,
link |
01:04:03.340
but a lot of tools, you can navigate to those easily
link |
01:04:05.820
because we have timestamps.
link |
01:04:06.700
You can go right to the topic of interest.
link |
01:04:08.340
Those tools are going to be very useful
link |
01:04:09.720
in trying to clamp or control your stress.
link |
01:04:12.260
And the point here is just that
link |
01:04:14.260
some increase in stress should be expected
link |
01:04:16.980
and it should be expected
link |
01:04:18.100
because of that increase in cortisol
link |
01:04:19.640
that occurs with even low-level consumption
link |
01:04:22.340
yet chronic alcohol consumption.
link |
01:04:24.380
Now I'd like to talk about a fairly common phenomenon,
link |
01:04:27.600
which is post-alcohol consumption malaise,
link |
01:04:31.420
also referred to as hangover.
link |
01:04:33.980
Hangover is a constellation of effects
link |
01:04:37.040
ranging from headache to nausea
link |
01:04:40.120
to what's sometimes called a anxiety,
link |
01:04:42.500
which is anxiety that follows a day of drinking.
link |
01:04:46.940
Anxiety, I think we can understand physiologically
link |
01:04:50.200
if we think about that process of alcohol intake
link |
01:04:54.860
increasing the amount of cortisol
link |
01:04:56.900
and the ratio of cortisol to some other stress hormones.
link |
01:05:00.540
That well explains why some people wake up the day after
link |
01:05:04.220
or even the day after a night drinking
link |
01:05:08.740
and feel anxious and not well and stressed
link |
01:05:11.420
for reasons they don't understand.
link |
01:05:13.200
So if you're somebody who experiences anxiety,
link |
01:05:17.260
then again, I refer you to the master stress episode
link |
01:05:20.460
that we put out some time ago
link |
01:05:22.340
and you can find that at hubermanlab.com.
link |
01:05:24.300
Tools to deal with anxiety, tools to deal with stress
link |
01:05:26.460
ranging again from behavioral
link |
01:05:27.860
to nutritional supplement-based, et cetera.
link |
01:05:30.840
That of course is not justification
link |
01:05:33.180
for going out and drinking so much
link |
01:05:34.640
that you get anxiety-induced hangover.
link |
01:05:38.000
But for those of you that are experiencing
link |
01:05:39.920
post-alcohol consumption, hangxiety as it were,
link |
01:05:43.380
that could be a useful resource
link |
01:05:44.780
because I certainly don't want anyone
link |
01:05:46.380
experiencing uncomfortable amounts of anxiety
link |
01:05:49.120
and there are great tools and resources for that.
link |
01:05:51.540
Now, the other aspects of hangover
link |
01:05:54.100
such as the stomach ache or headache
link |
01:05:58.320
or feelings of malaise or fogginess,
link |
01:06:01.140
those can be related to a number of different things
link |
01:06:02.780
and probably are related to a number of different things.
link |
01:06:05.140
First of all, the sleep that one gets after even just one,
link |
01:06:10.020
yes, even just one glass of wine or a beer
link |
01:06:13.940
is not the same sleep that you get
link |
01:06:15.660
when you don't have alcohol circulating in your system.
link |
01:06:18.260
And not trying to be a downer here,
link |
01:06:19.620
but this was discussed in the Huberman Lab podcast episode
link |
01:06:22.660
where I had Dr. Matthew Walker from UC Berkeley on
link |
01:06:26.100
and of course, Dr. Walker is a world expert in sleep,
link |
01:06:29.820
runs one of the preeminent laboratories
link |
01:06:31.540
studying sleep and its effects,
link |
01:06:33.500
wrote the incredible book, Why We Sleep and so on.
link |
01:06:37.640
Dr. Walker told me, and it certainly is supported by
link |
01:06:41.180
lots and lots of quality peer-reviewed studies
link |
01:06:43.300
in animals and in humans,
link |
01:06:45.020
that when alcohol is present in the brain and bloodstream,
link |
01:06:48.420
that the architecture of sleep is disrupted.
link |
01:06:50.260
Slow wave sleep, deep sleep and rapid eye movement sleep,
link |
01:06:53.140
all of which are essential
link |
01:06:54.060
for getting a restorative night's sleep are all disrupted.
link |
01:06:56.260
So for those of you that are drinking
link |
01:06:58.460
a glass or two of wine
link |
01:06:59.700
or having a hard liquor drink or a beer
link |
01:07:03.700
in order to fall asleep,
link |
01:07:05.360
the sleep you're getting is simply not high quality sleep
link |
01:07:07.900
or certainly not as high quality
link |
01:07:09.280
as the sleep you'd be getting
link |
01:07:10.300
if you did not have alcohol in your system.
link |
01:07:12.940
Of course, when we're talking about hangover,
link |
01:07:14.760
we're talking generally about the consumption
link |
01:07:17.100
of more than just one or two drinks.
link |
01:07:19.540
Of course, for some people,
link |
01:07:20.580
one or two drinks is probably sufficient to induce hangover,
link |
01:07:23.200
but for most people, it's going to be having three or four
link |
01:07:25.900
exceeding their typical limit, as it's called.
link |
01:07:28.580
Again, not the legal limit.
link |
01:07:29.860
That's a whole other business.
link |
01:07:31.680
But when one ingests too much alcohol for them,
link |
01:07:36.580
one of the reasons they feel terrible the next day
link |
01:07:39.300
is because their sleep isn't really good sleep.
link |
01:07:41.340
In fact, it's not even sleep.
link |
01:07:42.860
It's often considered pseudo sleep,
link |
01:07:44.820
or at least that's what it's called
link |
01:07:45.740
in the sleep science field,
link |
01:07:47.060
because people are in kind of a low level hypnotic
link |
01:07:49.980
kind of trance.
link |
01:07:50.820
It's not real sleep.
link |
01:07:51.640
There are multiple bouts of waking up.
link |
01:07:52.940
They may not even realize they're waking up multiple times.
link |
01:07:55.860
Okay, so there's the sleep-induced effects.
link |
01:07:57.620
Then there are the disrupted gut microbiome effects,
link |
01:08:01.860
some of which we talked about earlier.
link |
01:08:03.140
So now you understand the mechanism
link |
01:08:04.980
of alcohol destroying good, healthy gut microbiota,
link |
01:08:09.520
which then leads to leaky gut and things of that sort.
link |
01:08:12.240
But one could imagine, again, could imagine,
link |
01:08:14.980
and there is some evidence starting to support this,
link |
01:08:17.700
that, again, ingesting low-sugar fermented foods
link |
01:08:21.480
or maybe in prebiotic or probiotic
link |
01:08:23.300
to support the gut microbiome
link |
01:08:24.740
might assist in some of the gut-related malaise
link |
01:08:28.580
associated with hangover.
link |
01:08:29.780
In other words, get those gut microbiota healthy again
link |
01:08:33.420
as quickly as possible,
link |
01:08:34.340
or maybe even before you drink,
link |
01:08:36.060
have those gut microbiota healthy.
link |
01:08:37.320
I would hope that you would do that.
link |
01:08:38.160
I think everybody should be doing something
link |
01:08:39.540
to support their gut microbiome,
link |
01:08:40.920
whether or not it's the ingestion
link |
01:08:41.940
of low-sugar fermented foods daily
link |
01:08:43.780
or at least on a regular basis,
link |
01:08:45.540
or ingestion of probiotic or prebiotic.
link |
01:08:47.940
The gut microbiome is so important
link |
01:08:49.420
for so many different things.
link |
01:08:51.100
In terms of hangover and headache,
link |
01:08:54.980
we know that that's caused by vasoconstriction,
link |
01:08:58.000
the constriction of blood vessels
link |
01:08:59.500
that tends to occur as a rebound after a night of drinking.
link |
01:09:02.900
Alcohol can act as a vasodilator.
link |
01:09:04.780
It can dilate the blood vessels.
link |
01:09:06.020
Part of that is associated with the increase
link |
01:09:09.300
in so-called parasympathetic tone.
link |
01:09:11.300
We have an autonomic nervous system.
link |
01:09:12.760
It's got a sympathetic component.
link |
01:09:14.900
These are neurons that make us more alert,
link |
01:09:17.180
and if they're very active, they make us very stressed.
link |
01:09:19.540
There's also the parasympathetic aspect
link |
01:09:22.620
of the autonomic nervous system.
link |
01:09:23.660
This is all just fancy geek speak
link |
01:09:25.140
for the parts of your brain and body,
link |
01:09:26.940
the nerve cells that make you very relaxed.
link |
01:09:28.580
When you're very relaxed, there tends to be vasodilation.
link |
01:09:32.700
It allows for more movement of blood and other things
link |
01:09:35.620
through the bloodstream,
link |
01:09:37.420
and alcohol tends to induce some vasodilation,
link |
01:09:40.660
at least in some of the capillary beds,
link |
01:09:42.340
and then when the alcohol wears off,
link |
01:09:44.340
there's vasoconstriction, and people get brutal headaches.
link |
01:09:48.100
That's why some people will take aspirin or Tylenol
link |
01:09:50.940
or Advil or things like that,
link |
01:09:53.420
the sort of non-steroid anti-inflammatories.
link |
01:09:55.860
I should mention there's a lot of literature coming out
link |
01:09:58.560
that some of these non-steroid anti-inflammatory drugs
link |
01:10:02.300
are not good for us for a number of different reasons,
link |
01:10:04.500
the way they impact the liver,
link |
01:10:06.320
the way they impact the immune system,
link |
01:10:08.300
and no surprise, the way they impact the gut microbiome.
link |
01:10:11.860
So I'm not one to tell you what medications
link |
01:10:14.400
to take or not take, but you certainly would want to do
link |
01:10:16.380
a quick web search of effects of non-steroid
link |
01:10:21.100
anti-inflammatories and aspirin before you start taking those
link |
01:10:24.940
or stop taking those for that matter.
link |
01:10:27.620
Generally, they will alleviate headache,
link |
01:10:29.120
but they can often have other issues, including liver issues
link |
01:10:31.820
and keep in mind, the night after drinking,
link |
01:10:33.820
your liver has already taken a beating
link |
01:10:35.980
because of the need of the liver to convert alcohol
link |
01:10:40.500
from acetaldehyde into acetate,
link |
01:10:42.820
which is now a pathway that you well understand.
link |
01:10:45.020
So I'm not certain, and in fact,
link |
01:10:47.100
I believe it's not the greatest idea
link |
01:10:48.540
to burden your liver further through the use of things
link |
01:10:52.500
that are going to cause it to have to work harder
link |
01:10:54.940
and metabolize things if the goal is simply
link |
01:10:57.140
to alleviate a headache.
link |
01:10:58.680
There's a lot of kind of lore,
link |
01:11:01.100
old school lore about how to relieve a hangover.
link |
01:11:03.060
We already talked about how eating food won't do that,
link |
01:11:06.060
but eating food will prevent the rapid absorption
link |
01:11:09.620
of even more alcohol into the bloodstream.
link |
01:11:11.880
There's the lore that one should simply ingest
link |
01:11:14.660
more alcohol, what terrible advice that is,
link |
01:11:17.260
that's just going to delay an even worse hangover.
link |
01:11:19.460
However, I'd be remiss if I didn't say
link |
01:11:22.220
that the reason that that myth came to be,
link |
01:11:25.420
or that I should say that truth came to be,
link |
01:11:28.360
because indeed ingesting more alcohol
link |
01:11:31.120
will alleviate a hangover,
link |
01:11:32.640
but then a worse hangover will show up.
link |
01:11:34.700
The reason that came to be is because ingestion
link |
01:11:36.780
of more alcohol will cause those constricted vessels
link |
01:11:39.760
that are giving the headache to dilate again,
link |
01:11:42.000
but of course, ingesting more alcohol
link |
01:11:43.660
to relieve a hangover is simply a bad idea.
link |
01:11:45.960
Just don't do it.
link |
01:11:46.800
I think this is called the hair of the dog approach.
link |
01:11:48.680
Maybe someone can put in the show note captions on YouTube
link |
01:11:51.220
why it's called the hair of the dog.
link |
01:11:53.900
I can come up with a few ideas,
link |
01:11:55.320
but they're not going to be very good ones.
link |
01:11:58.420
And some of them would probably even be outright ridiculous.
link |
01:12:01.940
So do not ingest more alcohol simply to try
link |
01:12:04.600
and recover from a hangover.
link |
01:12:06.580
I know many people have tried that one before,
link |
01:12:08.700
but that's a terrible idea.
link |
01:12:10.500
Now, one thing that you'll also hear out there
link |
01:12:12.060
is that deliberate cold exposure,
link |
01:12:14.180
for instance, taking a cold shower might relieve hangover.
link |
01:12:17.180
I find this one particularly interesting
link |
01:12:18.740
because we've done episodes on the benefits
link |
01:12:20.900
of deliberate cold exposure.
link |
01:12:21.840
We have an entire episode about that.
link |
01:12:23.800
You can find it again, hubermanlab.com.
link |
01:12:26.360
There are direct links to some of the tools
link |
01:12:28.040
related to deliberate cold exposure.
link |
01:12:29.840
And we have an entire newsletter
link |
01:12:32.700
on deliberate cold exposure protocols.
link |
01:12:34.460
You can find on hubermanlab.com
link |
01:12:35.820
go to our neural network newsletter.
link |
01:12:37.700
So those of you that are interested in ice baths
link |
01:12:39.660
and cold showers and ways to leverage those,
link |
01:12:42.140
you can find that there.
link |
01:12:43.440
What you won't find there is a description
link |
01:12:45.200
of how to use deliberate cold exposure
link |
01:12:46.600
for sake of treating hangover.
link |
01:12:48.100
But here I went into the literature
link |
01:12:49.420
and I found something kind of interesting.
link |
01:12:51.060
There is some evidence that increasing levels of epinephrine
link |
01:12:54.720
in the bloodstream can actually help with alcohol clearance.
link |
01:12:58.680
That was very surprising to me.
link |
01:12:59.920
And I want to point out this is not a large
link |
01:13:02.000
and robust literature, but there's some evidence
link |
01:13:04.140
pointing to the fact that when levels of epinephrine,
link |
01:13:06.300
adrenaline, are raised in the brain and bloodstream,
link |
01:13:08.920
that some of the components of alcohol metabolism
link |
01:13:11.120
can be accelerated and some of the inebriating effects
link |
01:13:14.420
of alcohol can be reduced.
link |
01:13:15.780
So maybe this old school lore of taking a cold shower
link |
01:13:18.320
actually has something to it.
link |
01:13:19.660
So in thinking about the use of deliberate cold exposure
link |
01:13:22.000
in order to reduce the effects of hangover
link |
01:13:24.560
or to more rapidly clear alcohol
link |
01:13:28.040
from the brain and bloodstream,
link |
01:13:29.740
I want to be very clear and I want to emphasize your safety.
link |
01:13:34.520
The way to do that is to understand
link |
01:13:36.400
that alcohol lowers core body temperature, okay?
link |
01:13:39.800
It can make people slightly hypothermic.
link |
01:13:42.540
It's going to drop core body temperature.
link |
01:13:44.960
So if you were inebriated and you went
link |
01:13:48.080
and got into a body of water, right?
link |
01:13:50.000
A pool or a lake or something,
link |
01:13:52.000
first of all, that's extremely dangerous to do
link |
01:13:54.240
while you're inebriated, right?
link |
01:13:55.560
People drown all the time.
link |
01:13:56.760
People drown, they die as a consequence of doing that.
link |
01:13:59.120
So please don't do that.
link |
01:14:00.940
But also if it's a very cold water,
link |
01:14:03.040
your core body temperature is going to drop even further.
link |
01:14:05.740
Now, if you've heard the episodes
link |
01:14:07.120
that I've done on deliberate cold exposure,
link |
01:14:09.660
previously I've talked about how normally
link |
01:14:12.080
when people are not ingesting alcohol,
link |
01:14:14.300
they get into an ice bath or a cold shower
link |
01:14:16.040
and their body temperature initially dips,
link |
01:14:17.800
but then it rebounds and increases.
link |
01:14:19.420
That's a process that's going to occur
link |
01:14:20.920
when people do not have alcohol in their system.
link |
01:14:23.560
When you have alcohol in your system,
link |
01:14:24.980
one of the reasons that you become hypothermic
link |
01:14:27.660
is because there's a disruption
link |
01:14:29.160
in those hypothalamic brain areas,
link |
01:14:30.620
in particular the brain area called the medial preoptic area
link |
01:14:33.460
that regulates core body temperature.
link |
01:14:35.400
So it's not so much that alcohol makes you cold,
link |
01:14:37.980
it's that alcohol disrupts the central command centers
link |
01:14:41.480
of the brain that control temperature regulation
link |
01:14:43.740
and that leads you to be slightly hypothermic.
link |
01:14:46.740
So if you then go get into a very cold lake
link |
01:14:49.160
or you get into even a cold shower or an ice bath,
link |
01:14:52.540
there's the possibility of you going very, very far
link |
01:14:55.800
down the ladder into very hypothermic territory
link |
01:14:59.200
and that can be very dangerous.
link |
01:15:00.740
Now, in terms of dealing with hangover
link |
01:15:02.360
when the alcohol has been largely cleared from your system,
link |
01:15:05.200
well, that's where some of this kind of old lore
link |
01:15:07.920
combines with some of the modern science and says,
link |
01:15:10.600
well, if you can spike adrenaline
link |
01:15:13.480
and certainly getting into an ice bath
link |
01:15:15.200
or getting into a cold shower
link |
01:15:16.880
or any kind of cold body of water
link |
01:15:19.120
provided you can do that safely,
link |
01:15:20.360
that will sharply increase your adrenaline
link |
01:15:22.680
and I should say your dopamine, that's been shown
link |
01:15:24.720
and we've talked about this on the podcast before,
link |
01:15:26.380
you get these long extended increases,
link |
01:15:28.780
several hours of increases in dopamine
link |
01:15:30.420
from deliberate cold exposure.
link |
01:15:31.760
It's well-documented in humans, by the way.
link |
01:15:34.200
So one could imagine using deliberate cold exposure
link |
01:15:37.920
as a way to accelerate the recovery from hangover
link |
01:15:41.880
provided that's done safely.
link |
01:15:43.260
I think there's no reason to not explore that
link |
01:15:45.500
and if you wonder what safely is
link |
01:15:47.860
and what temperatures to use,
link |
01:15:49.240
please check out the episode on deliberate cold exposure.
link |
01:15:52.540
Cold showers therefore might actually be one way
link |
01:15:55.840
to at least partially relieve hangover.
link |
01:15:57.640
Certainly the science from various places in the literature
link |
01:16:01.260
converge to say that, but again, be careful,
link |
01:16:04.000
please, please, please be careful
link |
01:16:05.680
not to get into cold water when you are inebriated.
link |
01:16:09.200
It's absolutely dangerous for all the obvious reasons
link |
01:16:12.180
and it's dangerous also for the non-obvious reasons,
link |
01:16:14.680
not the least of which is the dramatic decreases
link |
01:16:17.800
in core body temperature
link |
01:16:18.980
that can make you dangerously hypothermic.
link |
01:16:21.380
Now, how would you go about using deliberate cold exposure
link |
01:16:23.640
to accelerate recovery from hangover?
link |
01:16:25.520
Well, there I would look to the kind of standard protocols
link |
01:16:28.400
of one to three minutes or maybe even six minutes
link |
01:16:30.520
if you can tolerate or if you're really cold adapted,
link |
01:16:33.280
maybe you do seven or 10 minutes in a cold shower,
link |
01:16:35.760
although that could be a lot.
link |
01:16:36.640
Most people are going to experience a sharp increase
link |
01:16:40.280
in epinephrine and adrenaline
link |
01:16:41.640
and a long lasting increase in dopamine
link |
01:16:44.200
from one to three minutes of deliberate cold exposure,
link |
01:16:47.460
ideally done immersion up to the neck.
link |
01:16:49.200
Again, do this safely, please, please, please
link |
01:16:51.280
or a cold shower where you're getting under the shower
link |
01:16:53.200
as much as possible.
link |
01:16:54.040
How cold?
link |
01:16:54.860
Well, that's going to vary person to person.
link |
01:16:56.680
I suggest making it as cold as is uncomfortable
link |
01:16:59.520
such that you really want to get out,
link |
01:17:00.880
but then you know you can stay in safely without,
link |
01:17:02.560
for instance, giving yourself a heart attack
link |
01:17:03.800
because if the water is really, really cold,
link |
01:17:05.420
of course you can give yourself a heart attack.
link |
01:17:06.720
Most showers won't go that cold,
link |
01:17:08.400
although probably some will.
link |
01:17:10.380
Again, please use caution, spike your adrenaline,
link |
01:17:12.800
spike your dopamine with deliberate cold exposure safely.
link |
01:17:15.860
Other components of hangover that could be good targets
link |
01:17:18.200
for trying to alleviate hangover,
link |
01:17:19.960
and here I hope you are getting the picture
link |
01:17:21.960
because it is accurate to say that hangover
link |
01:17:25.600
is a multifaceted phenomenon.
link |
01:17:27.720
It's not like one molecule and one receptor,
link |
01:17:29.560
it's a bunch of things happening in the brain and body,
link |
01:17:31.800
but is the dehydration associated with alcohol?
link |
01:17:34.840
Alcohol is a diuretic for multiple reasons.
link |
01:17:37.800
It causes people to excrete not only water, but also sodium.
link |
01:17:41.860
Sodium is an electrolyte critical
link |
01:17:43.480
for the function of neurons.
link |
01:17:44.640
So making sure that you have enough sodium, potassium,
link |
01:17:47.040
and magnesium, so-called electrolytes
link |
01:17:49.460
is going to be important for proper brain function,
link |
01:17:53.000
bodily organ function.
link |
01:17:54.560
Even for people that have just had one or two drinks
link |
01:17:56.600
the night before, it's likely that your electrolyte balance
link |
01:17:59.900
and your fluid balance is going to be disrupted,
link |
01:18:02.320
and that's because alcohol also disrupts
link |
01:18:04.480
the so-called vasopressin pathway.
link |
01:18:06.320
I talked a lot about vasopressin
link |
01:18:08.480
and the way that it interacts with
link |
01:18:11.000
and controls different aspects of water retention
link |
01:18:13.620
and water release from the body in the form of urine
link |
01:18:16.180
in the episode on salt.
link |
01:18:18.180
So again, I'm referring to Hubermanlab.com
link |
01:18:21.760
as the site where you can find that episode on salt balance
link |
01:18:24.040
and ways to restore electrolyte balance.
link |
01:18:26.120
Having your electrolytes at the proper levels
link |
01:18:29.740
before you drink is ideal.
link |
01:18:31.320
Some people will say for every glass of alcohol
link |
01:18:34.200
that you drink, you should drink one glass of water.
link |
01:18:36.880
I would say better would be two glasses of water
link |
01:18:40.040
given the dehydrating effects of alcohol,
link |
01:18:42.040
and even better would be water with electrolytes.
link |
01:18:44.520
That certainly would set you up for a better day
link |
01:18:46.680
the next day.
link |
01:18:47.840
And if you don't manage to do that,
link |
01:18:50.120
because I suppose it's kind of geeky
link |
01:18:51.200
walking around with electrolyte packets
link |
01:18:53.440
out at the bar or whatnot,
link |
01:18:55.040
although, you know, geeky in my book is a good thing,
link |
01:18:59.080
the next day you could take some electrolytes upon waking,
link |
01:19:02.540
maybe even some before you go to sleep
link |
01:19:04.640
at the night of drinking.
link |
01:19:05.940
So hangovers made worse by disturbed sleep,
link |
01:19:09.000
made worse by disrupted gut microbiome,
link |
01:19:10.840
made worse by disrupted electrolytes,
link |
01:19:13.020
made worse by the depletion of epinephrine and dopamine.
link |
01:19:16.400
That's why replenishing the microbiome with fermented foods,
link |
01:19:19.800
low sugar fermented foods that is,
link |
01:19:21.680
that's why using safe deliberate cold exposure
link |
01:19:25.560
for spiking adrenaline and for increasing dopamine.
link |
01:19:29.920
And that's why consuming electrolytes
link |
01:19:32.600
are all going to be beneficial.
link |
01:19:34.760
The folks over at examine.com, a website that I really like
link |
01:19:38.440
because it just has so much useful information,
link |
01:19:41.120
have assembled a list of things that have been proposed,
link |
01:19:45.320
purported to improve, or I should say,
link |
01:19:48.840
to remove the effects of hangover.
link |
01:19:51.600
And as they point out, and I would like to point out
link |
01:19:54.320
over there, there isn't a lot of quality science
link |
01:19:56.880
to support the idea that any one compound
link |
01:19:59.760
can eliminate hangover.
link |
01:20:01.080
And that's probably because hangover, again,
link |
01:20:03.120
arises from multiple organs and tissues and systems
link |
01:20:05.920
in both the brain and body.
link |
01:20:07.380
Nonetheless, they have a terrific list over there of things,
link |
01:20:10.720
everything from Japanese pear fruit juice
link |
01:20:14.000
has been proposed to do this
link |
01:20:15.280
to some other really esoteric things,
link |
01:20:17.560
even things like yohimbine.
link |
01:20:20.800
Frankly, when I look at the literature,
link |
01:20:23.760
there and elsewhere,
link |
01:20:25.520
one simply cannot find the magic substance,
link |
01:20:29.160
the one herb, the one potion that can wipe away hangover.
link |
01:20:33.820
Getting rid of hangover is going to be best solved
link |
01:20:37.400
by doing a collection of a small number
link |
01:20:40.080
of very powerful things,
link |
01:20:41.760
of which I've already listed off a few.
link |
01:20:44.400
However, there are some additional things
link |
01:20:46.040
that one can do for relieving hangover.
link |
01:20:48.440
And one of them is to be very thoughtful
link |
01:20:51.820
about what sorts of alcohol one consumes.
link |
01:20:54.360
So I find this interesting.
link |
01:20:56.120
There have actually been studies
link |
01:20:57.680
of which types of alcohol lead to the greatest hangovers.
link |
01:21:02.200
There's actually a lot of legend and lore about this as well.
link |
01:21:06.200
Some people have said, for instance,
link |
01:21:07.560
that drinks that have a high sugar content
link |
01:21:10.160
lead to greater hangovers.
link |
01:21:12.320
Turns out that's not the case,
link |
01:21:13.640
or at least that's not what the science points to.
link |
01:21:15.720
If you look at the expected hangover severity,
link |
01:21:18.780
what you find is that at the bottom end of the scale,
link |
01:21:21.960
there's a drink that I'm not going to tell you for the moment
link |
01:21:25.840
but what you find is that near it is, for instance, beer.
link |
01:21:28.940
The consumption of beer,
link |
01:21:31.200
provided it is not over consumption, right?
link |
01:21:33.600
It's not far beyond the tolerance of the individual.
link |
01:21:36.840
So there's one or two beers,
link |
01:21:38.300
is less likely to cause a hangover than say whiskey.
link |
01:21:42.640
And a glass of whiskey,
link |
01:21:44.260
or I should not as much whiskey as beer, of course,
link |
01:21:46.880
but a glass of whiskey, for instance,
link |
01:21:48.480
is more likely to cause hangover than gin, as it turns out.
link |
01:21:53.080
Again, this is what's fallen out of the data.
link |
01:21:56.360
And yet a glass of rum or red wine
link |
01:22:00.080
is more likely to cause a hangover
link |
01:22:02.080
than any of the other things I've mentioned so far.
link |
01:22:04.420
At the top, top, top of the list of drinks
link |
01:22:06.560
that induce hangover is brandy.
link |
01:22:08.960
And one could then say,
link |
01:22:10.800
well, doesn't brandy have a lot of sugar?
link |
01:22:12.600
Maybe it's the sugar that's causing hangovers.
link |
01:22:14.440
And this is something that's been, again,
link |
01:22:16.000
discussed over and over that people say,
link |
01:22:17.480
oh, it's the high sugar drinks that cause hangover.
link |
01:22:19.880
It turns out, however, that when one looks at drinks,
link |
01:22:24.360
alcoholic drinks and sugar content and hangover,
link |
01:22:26.920
at the very bottom of the list is,
link |
01:22:30.100
gosh, this makes me cringe just to think about,
link |
01:22:32.000
is ethanol diluted in orange juice?
link |
01:22:35.360
Ugh, I can't believe people actually drink this,
link |
01:22:37.580
but ethanol diluted in orange juice.
link |
01:22:39.280
So this is not vodka and orange juice, okay?
link |
01:22:41.400
Vodka was third on the list from the bottom
link |
01:22:43.840
of drinks that induce hangover.
link |
01:22:45.320
Again, this is within amounts that are comfortable
link |
01:22:49.440
for the person to drink,
link |
01:22:50.280
that they have enough experience with
link |
01:22:52.040
or that they have the body weight to tolerate
link |
01:22:53.640
without getting very, very drunk.
link |
01:22:55.540
So the point is that if it were sugar
link |
01:22:58.640
that's causing hangover,
link |
01:22:59.720
well, then the ethanol diluted in orange juice
link |
01:23:02.940
would probably be at the top of the list
link |
01:23:04.680
in terms of inducing hangover, but it's not.
link |
01:23:06.720
It's at the bottom of the list.
link |
01:23:07.780
And brandy is at the top of the list.
link |
01:23:09.920
So what you find is that what scales
link |
01:23:12.920
from ethanol diluted in orange juice
link |
01:23:15.360
to beer to vodka to gin,
link |
01:23:16.640
here I'm ascending the hierarchy of things
link |
01:23:18.520
that cause hangover, gin, white wine, whiskey,
link |
01:23:21.200
rum, red wine, and then brandy at the peak,
link |
01:23:24.100
it's sort of the world heavyweight champion
link |
01:23:26.640
of hangover inducing drinks.
link |
01:23:29.160
Well, what's increasing are congeners within those drinks.
link |
01:23:34.320
Congeners are things like nitrites and other substances
link |
01:23:37.900
that give alcohol its distinctive flavor
link |
01:23:41.720
and that also lead to some of the
link |
01:23:44.680
inebriating effects of alcohol.
link |
01:23:46.880
Now then you ask, okay, well,
link |
01:23:48.040
what is it that these congeners are doing
link |
01:23:50.820
and what are these nitrates doing?
link |
01:23:52.160
And guess what?
link |
01:23:53.520
While they do have effects on the brain
link |
01:23:55.120
and on other tissues,
link |
01:23:57.040
their main effects are to disrupt the gut microbiome.
link |
01:24:00.840
So what this points to again
link |
01:24:03.400
is that having a healthy gut microbiome
link |
01:24:05.860
and perhaps ensuring that you bolster your gut microbiome,
link |
01:24:10.700
the day after drinking is going to be especially important
link |
01:24:14.520
for warding off hangover,
link |
01:24:16.600
or at least reducing the effects of hangover
link |
01:24:19.400
or the symptoms of hangover or both.
link |
01:24:21.560
I would love to see a study on this.
link |
01:24:24.080
I could imagine designing the study myself,
link |
01:24:25.960
although this isn't really the sorts of things
link |
01:24:27.640
my laboratory does,
link |
01:24:29.120
but you can imagine some people getting probiotic
link |
01:24:31.760
and prebiotic, some regularly,
link |
01:24:33.920
some just after drinking or low sugar fermented foods
link |
01:24:37.200
and see what the effects are
link |
01:24:38.220
in terms of subjective effects of hangover,
link |
01:24:40.620
but also some physiological measures.
link |
01:24:43.320
I think the way to think about hangover overall
link |
01:24:45.780
is that, again, it represents a multifaceted,
link |
01:24:50.120
multi-organ, multi-tissue phenomenon.
link |
01:24:53.980
And the best way to deal with it
link |
01:24:55.560
is as a multi-cell, multi-tissue, multi-chemical phenomenon.
link |
01:24:59.840
And before I listed off some of the things
link |
01:25:01.360
that one could do in order to adjust hangover,
link |
01:25:05.180
again, the one that comes out at the top of that list,
link |
01:25:08.640
I believe, at least based on my read of the data,
link |
01:25:10.900
is to support the gut microbiome
link |
01:25:13.400
and certainly not to ingest more alcohol.
link |
01:25:16.580
And I suppose if we were to get really honest
link |
01:25:19.080
with one another and ask what's the best way
link |
01:25:22.060
to avoid a hangover,
link |
01:25:23.360
it would be to not drink in the first place.
link |
01:25:25.600
So we've covered the major effects of alcohol
link |
01:25:28.160
that lead to this state that we call
link |
01:25:31.080
drunkenness or inebriation.
link |
01:25:33.320
Again, there's a range there.
link |
01:25:34.480
It can be tipsy, people can be blackout drunk,
link |
01:25:37.180
people can be passed out drunk.
link |
01:25:40.200
We've also talked about hangover
link |
01:25:42.000
and the fact that it's a multifaceted phenomenon
link |
01:25:44.480
and recovery from hangover
link |
01:25:46.120
involves a multifaceted approach.
link |
01:25:49.660
Next, I want to talk about tolerance.
link |
01:25:51.700
Tolerance to alcohol is a very interesting phenomenon.
link |
01:25:54.440
It has roots mainly in the brain and in brain systems.
link |
01:26:00.380
There's not time in the world,
link |
01:26:02.160
let alone within this podcast,
link |
01:26:03.560
to get into all the aspects of tolerance.
link |
01:26:05.520
There are more than 10 different types of tolerance.
link |
01:26:08.080
There's functional tolerance,
link |
01:26:09.080
chronic tolerance, rapid tolerance.
link |
01:26:10.980
There's metabolic tolerance.
link |
01:26:12.400
There's psychological tolerance.
link |
01:26:14.600
Let's keep it simple for sake of today's discussion.
link |
01:26:16.700
And for those of you that are interested in learning
link |
01:26:18.540
about all the different types of tolerance
link |
01:26:20.320
and aspects of tolerance,
link |
01:26:22.360
there's an excellent review.
link |
01:26:23.700
We will provide a link to this.
link |
01:26:24.980
This was published in 2021.
link |
01:26:26.440
So it's pretty recent in the journal
link |
01:26:28.080
Pharmacology, Biochemistry and Behavior.
link |
01:26:30.680
Incidentally or not so incidentally,
link |
01:26:32.560
that was the first journal I ever published in.
link |
01:26:34.400
So I have a particular affection for that journal.
link |
01:26:38.400
Nonetheless, it is called tolerance to alcohol,
link |
01:26:41.360
a critical yet understudied factor in alcohol addiction.
link |
01:26:44.640
And while this paper does include alcohol addiction
link |
01:26:48.480
in the title, it's not just about alcohol addiction.
link |
01:26:52.640
Here's the basic summary of what tolerance is.
link |
01:26:54.760
First of all, tolerance refers to the reduced effects
link |
01:26:57.840
of alcohol with repeated exposure.
link |
01:27:01.000
And it is caused mainly by changes
link |
01:27:03.240
in neurotransmitter systems in the brain
link |
01:27:06.120
that are the direct consequence of the toxicity of alcohol,
link |
01:27:09.500
that aldehyde molecule that we talked about before.
link |
01:27:12.660
There's an enormous number of chemicals that change
link |
01:27:16.360
with repeated exposure to acetaldehyde,
link |
01:27:20.000
everything from GABA to dopamine to serotonin,
link |
01:27:22.280
second messenger systems, adenosine and on and on.
link |
01:27:25.120
Rather than go into each of those in detail,
link |
01:27:26.960
I just want to talk about the contour of the reinforcing
link |
01:27:31.240
and the tolerance inducing effects of alcohol.
link |
01:27:33.320
What do I mean by that?
link |
01:27:34.640
Well, here we are back to our old friend,
link |
01:27:38.680
meaning the molecule that comes up over and over again
link |
01:27:41.660
in these podcast episodes, which is dopamine.
link |
01:27:44.880
Whether or not somebody has a predisposition alcoholism
link |
01:27:47.200
or not, whether or not they're experienced drinker or not,
link |
01:27:49.900
when people initially start drinking,
link |
01:27:51.200
there are increases in dopamine
link |
01:27:53.160
or what we call dopaminergic transmission.
link |
01:27:55.200
Dopamine is involved in motivation, craving,
link |
01:27:58.240
it creates a sense of wellbeing, it increases energy,
link |
01:28:01.200
again, typically only at the beginning of alcohol exposure.
link |
01:28:05.240
That occurs in most people as a sharp spike,
link |
01:28:07.840
as they increase.
link |
01:28:08.680
Again, if somebody does not have alcohol dehydrogenase
link |
01:28:12.040
or has very low levels of the enzyme
link |
01:28:13.520
that convert that acetaldehyde into acetate
link |
01:28:17.480
and metabolize alcohol, in other words,
link |
01:28:19.040
they will feel sick and lousy in a way
link |
01:28:21.640
that will override any recognition of the dopamine release.
link |
01:28:24.400
They're going to be the people that are listening to this
link |
01:28:26.160
and just think alcohol just makes me feel sick,
link |
01:28:28.120
I don't like it.
link |
01:28:29.200
Okay, that's a specific subcategory of people,
link |
01:28:31.300
but most people experience some sort of mild euphoria,
link |
01:28:35.020
that's why so many people drink, right?
link |
01:28:36.660
The current estimates are that in most countries
link |
01:28:38.620
and certainly in the US,
link |
01:28:40.040
as many as 80% of the adult legal drinking age population
link |
01:28:44.080
drinks alcohol and that number could be even higher now
link |
01:28:47.920
because in the last couple of years,
link |
01:28:49.280
there's been a trend towards increased alcohol consumption,
link |
01:28:51.360
especially in the wake of the pandemic
link |
01:28:54.160
and during the pandemic topic for another time.
link |
01:28:57.760
So there's an increase in dopamine
link |
01:28:59.420
and an increase in serotonin,
link |
01:29:01.180
so it's kind of an increase in wellbeing,
link |
01:29:02.800
an increase in mood, but it's a very short-lived increase.
link |
01:29:06.840
Very soon after and actually triggered by that increase
link |
01:29:10.160
is a long and slow reduction in dopamine and serotonin
link |
01:29:15.200
and related molecules and circuits.
link |
01:29:17.180
So basically what you're getting is a blip of feel good
link |
01:29:19.640
followed by a long, slow arc of feeling not so great,
link |
01:29:23.560
which is why typically people will drink again and again
link |
01:29:26.220
across the night.
link |
01:29:29.060
The key thing to understand about tolerance
link |
01:29:31.800
is that with tolerance,
link |
01:29:34.280
the duration of that long, slow reduction
link |
01:29:38.000
in dopamine and serotonin gets even longer.
link |
01:29:42.160
In other words, the negative effects of alcohol
link |
01:29:44.640
that happen after the initial feeling good extend longer
link |
01:29:49.240
and in fact get more robust.
link |
01:29:52.100
However, there's also a reduction
link |
01:29:55.480
in the reinforcing properties of alcohol.
link |
01:29:57.300
There's a shrinking of the feel good blip
link |
01:30:00.200
that happens when one first ingests alcohol.
link |
01:30:02.680
And this has been measured in animals and humans.
link |
01:30:04.820
So the first drink that somebody has,
link |
01:30:06.860
provided they have enough alcohol dehydrogenase
link |
01:30:09.360
that doesn't make them feel nauseous and sick right away,
link |
01:30:11.820
they feel really good.
link |
01:30:13.800
And then as it wears off, they feel kind of lousy
link |
01:30:15.760
and they want to drink more, so they might drink more.
link |
01:30:17.720
With each subsequent drink and even drinks
link |
01:30:19.780
on different nights or even different weeks,
link |
01:30:23.480
the amount of dopamine that's released is reduced.
link |
01:30:26.720
The amount of serotonin that's released is reduced.
link |
01:30:29.140
So what you're getting is less and less
link |
01:30:31.540
of the reinforcing properties of alcohol,
link |
01:30:34.560
the feel good stuff,
link |
01:30:36.240
and more and more of the punishment
link |
01:30:38.280
pain signal aspects of alcohol.
link |
01:30:39.920
This is the contour of chemical release in the brain
link |
01:30:45.360
that was referred to by my colleague,
link |
01:30:47.980
the incredible Dr. Anna Lemke, who's a medical doctor.
link |
01:30:50.440
She wrote the incredible book, Dopamine Nation.
link |
01:30:52.340
She was a guest on this podcast, on Joe Rogan's podcast,
link |
01:30:54.840
on Rich Roll's podcast, and several other podcasts.
link |
01:30:57.560
World expert in addiction,
link |
01:30:58.800
and she talked about this pleasure pain balance
link |
01:31:01.240
that extends beyond alcohol to things like sex and gambling
link |
01:31:05.360
and to other behaviors that can potentially become addictive
link |
01:31:09.000
but certainly includes alcohol.
link |
01:31:11.200
So tolerance, it seems, is a process in which people
link |
01:31:15.560
are ingesting more and more alcohol
link |
01:31:18.120
as an attempt to get that feeling of wellbeing back.
link |
01:31:22.480
But what they're really getting is an extended period
link |
01:31:24.860
of punishment, of pain, and of malaise from the alcohol.
link |
01:31:28.520
Now you might say, well, how does that relate to tolerance?
link |
01:31:30.940
Well, it turns out what they do behaviorally,
link |
01:31:33.320
and when I say they, I mean, animals do this
link |
01:31:34.920
and humans do this, is they start drinking more and more
link |
01:31:37.960
in an attempt to activate those dopamine
link |
01:31:40.580
and serotonin neurons and receptors.
link |
01:31:43.880
And as they do that,
link |
01:31:46.080
there is an increase in alcohol dehydrogenase.
link |
01:31:48.680
So the enzyme that metabolizes alcohol is increased
link |
01:31:51.460
because the body and liver have to contend
link |
01:31:53.420
with all that alcohol.
link |
01:31:54.940
So now you've got, again, the two hit model.
link |
01:31:57.020
You're getting less of the feel-good chemicals,
link |
01:31:58.720
more of the negative chemical release
link |
01:32:01.080
or pattern of subjective feeling, I should say,
link |
01:32:05.040
and you're metabolizing alcohol more quickly
link |
01:32:09.000
and more readily, but it's not taking you to a better place
link |
01:32:11.800
in terms of how you feel.
link |
01:32:13.160
That's one of the major underlying reasons
link |
01:32:15.320
for what we call tolerance.
link |
01:32:16.580
So if you're somebody who drinks
link |
01:32:17.800
and you notice that the feeling
link |
01:32:19.080
that you are seeking with alcohol
link |
01:32:21.320
is now requiring an additional drink or drinks, plural,
link |
01:32:26.360
chances are you are disrupting the dopamine
link |
01:32:29.200
and serotonergic systems of your brain,
link |
01:32:31.720
and you are doing that in a way that is increasing
link |
01:32:35.320
the pain and punishment signals
link |
01:32:37.220
that follow alcohol ingestion.
link |
01:32:40.240
And again, that's not just on the night
link |
01:32:41.520
that you're drinking, but afterwards as well.
link |
01:32:43.720
Is that all bad news?
link |
01:32:44.800
Well, pretty much, but the good news is
link |
01:32:47.680
that if you abstain from drinking for some period of time,
link |
01:32:50.860
then of course these systems reset.
link |
01:32:52.800
How long you need to abstain
link |
01:32:53.980
will depend on how much you were drinking
link |
01:32:55.680
and how long you were drinking for.
link |
01:32:56.840
Certainly people who have alcohol use disorder
link |
01:32:59.000
who are alcoholics,
link |
01:33:00.500
their main goal should be to quit alcohol completely.
link |
01:33:02.800
I know there's some debate about this,
link |
01:33:04.320
and I don't want to get into that debate
link |
01:33:05.760
because I'm certainly not going to try
link |
01:33:07.420
and direct anyone's recovery.
link |
01:33:08.560
There are expert counselors and MDs
link |
01:33:12.400
and people that can work with people.
link |
01:33:13.820
In fact, for some very heavy drinkers
link |
01:33:15.900
and people with serious alcohol use disorder,
link |
01:33:18.020
going cold turkey that is stopping drinking completely
link |
01:33:20.500
can actually be medically dangerous.
link |
01:33:22.500
So the path to sobriety for certain people
link |
01:33:25.500
looks different than the path to sobriety for other people.
link |
01:33:27.780
What I'm referring to here
link |
01:33:29.240
are people that are ingesting again
link |
01:33:31.080
somewhere between on average one to two drinks per night,
link |
01:33:34.600
whether or not that's done night to night
link |
01:33:36.460
or whether or not that's condensed to weekend use.
link |
01:33:39.200
I know a number of people are going to ask,
link |
01:33:41.160
perhaps are screaming,
link |
01:33:42.940
is drinking good for me in any way?
link |
01:33:45.040
For instance, many people have probably heard
link |
01:33:47.020
that resveratrol is good for people
link |
01:33:49.360
and that red wine is enriched in resveratrol.
link |
01:33:52.100
I hate to break it to you,
link |
01:33:52.940
but the reality is that if indeed resveratrol is good for us
link |
01:33:57.360
and there's some debate about this,
link |
01:33:58.620
some people say strongly yes,
link |
01:33:59.900
some people say no,
link |
01:34:01.200
other people say maybe,
link |
01:34:02.720
the amount of red wine that one would have to drink
link |
01:34:06.080
in order to get enough resveratrol
link |
01:34:07.920
in order for it to be health promoting
link |
01:34:10.260
is so outrageously high that it would surely
link |
01:34:13.120
induce other negative effects
link |
01:34:14.440
that would offset the positive effects of resveratrol.
link |
01:34:17.280
So I wish I could tell you different.
link |
01:34:19.760
Again, I'm not here to be the bearer of bad news,
link |
01:34:22.440
but the statement I just made was confirmed
link |
01:34:24.500
by Dr. David Sinclair
link |
01:34:25.840
when he was a guest on this podcast.
link |
01:34:27.600
It's confirmed by other researchers
link |
01:34:29.600
who work on resveratrol and related pathways.
link |
01:34:33.120
I wish I could tell you that red wine
link |
01:34:34.400
is good for your health,
link |
01:34:35.400
and indeed it might be through some other mechanisms.
link |
01:34:39.320
So for instance, there have been studies
link |
01:34:40.920
of low to moderate red wine consumption.
link |
01:34:44.240
This would be anywhere from one to four glasses per week,
link |
01:34:48.420
and I don't mean enormous glasses,
link |
01:34:50.180
I mean six ounce glasses of red wine.
link |
01:34:53.140
And in those cases,
link |
01:34:54.360
some of the stress reduction that can be induced
link |
01:34:57.760
by consumption of red wine,
link |
01:34:59.260
maybe some of the other micronutrients and components
link |
01:35:02.480
within red wines,
link |
01:35:03.520
in particular red wines that come from particular grapes,
link |
01:35:05.880
and this gets really nuanced,
link |
01:35:07.560
and frankly is not well worked out
link |
01:35:09.620
in the peer-reviewed literature,
link |
01:35:11.600
certainly not clinical trials,
link |
01:35:13.680
at least not that I'm aware of.
link |
01:35:14.760
Tell me if you're aware of a great clinical trial on this.
link |
01:35:17.460
Well, there may be some positive effects
link |
01:35:19.160
of that very low level of consumption.
link |
01:35:22.240
I'm not trying to take away anybody's red wine.
link |
01:35:24.320
I'm not trying to take away anybody's anything.
link |
01:35:27.540
I would be remiss, however,
link |
01:35:29.960
if I didn't tell you that resveratrol
link |
01:35:34.400
as the argument for drinking
link |
01:35:36.240
and drinking red wine in particular is just not a good one.
link |
01:35:39.060
It's just not supported by the peer-reviewed research.
link |
01:35:42.160
A few other things about alcohol and health.
link |
01:35:45.620
The beginning of the episode,
link |
01:35:46.840
I referenced a study showing that indeed,
link |
01:35:49.860
not just heavy alcohol consumption
link |
01:35:51.960
of 12 to 24 more drinks per week,
link |
01:35:53.660
but also light to moderate alcohol consumption
link |
01:35:56.520
of any type, wine, beer, spirits, et cetera,
link |
01:35:59.740
does reduce the thickness of the brain.
link |
01:36:03.240
It really does reduce cortical thickness.
link |
01:36:05.260
In fact, it actually scales with the amount of alcohol
link |
01:36:09.440
that people drink.
link |
01:36:10.480
And this has been well-documented
link |
01:36:12.800
in a number of different studies.
link |
01:36:13.820
I can provide a link to several of these.
link |
01:36:16.120
One of the more striking ones actually shows
link |
01:36:17.800
that there's almost a dose-dependent increase
link |
01:36:21.320
in shrinkage of the gray matter volume
link |
01:36:23.320
and in these white matter tracks, these axons,
link |
01:36:26.160
these wires, as it would, that connect different neurons
link |
01:36:29.820
as a function of how much alcohol people drink.
link |
01:36:31.520
And that's also what's been seen in this recent study
link |
01:36:34.080
that I referenced at the beginning,
link |
01:36:35.200
and that's in the show note captions.
link |
01:36:36.960
So again, probably the best amount of alcohol to drink
link |
01:36:40.040
would be zero glasses per week or ounces per week.
link |
01:36:43.600
For those of you drinking low amounts of alcohol,
link |
01:36:45.680
make sure you're doing other things to promote your health.
link |
01:36:48.940
And for those of you that are drinking moderate,
link |
01:36:51.760
and certainly for those of you that are heavy drinkers,
link |
01:36:53.720
please do everything you can to move away from that
link |
01:36:56.520
and to quit entirely.
link |
01:36:58.000
But even for the moderate consumers of alcohol,
link |
01:37:01.520
you are going to want to be aware of some
link |
01:37:04.200
of the negative health effects and do things to offset those
link |
01:37:06.640
if indeed you're not going to stop drinking
link |
01:37:09.200
or reduce your intake.
link |
01:37:10.480
One of the really bad effects of alcohol,
link |
01:37:12.960
but that's extremely well-documented,
link |
01:37:15.600
is the fact that alcohol,
link |
01:37:18.220
because of this toxicity of acetaldehyde
link |
01:37:20.960
and related pathways, can alter DNA methylation,
link |
01:37:24.440
it can alter gene expression.
link |
01:37:26.200
That can be many things in different tissues,
link |
01:37:28.640
but it is associated with a significant increase
link |
01:37:33.800
in cancer risk, in particular, breast cancer.
link |
01:37:36.400
And in particular, because breast tissue is present
link |
01:37:39.520
in both males and females, but in women,
link |
01:37:42.280
it's especially vulnerable
link |
01:37:43.360
to some of the DNA methylation changes.
link |
01:37:45.800
Well, breast cancer in women has a relationship
link |
01:37:49.000
to alcohol intake and alcohol intake has a relationship
link |
01:37:51.300
to breast cancer in women.
link |
01:37:53.080
In fact, there has been proposed to be anywhere from four
link |
01:37:59.020
to 13% increase in risk of breast cancer
link |
01:38:03.080
for every 10 grams of alcohol consumed.
link |
01:38:05.900
How much is 10 grams?
link |
01:38:07.140
Well, there we need to think a little bit
link |
01:38:08.740
about the variation in the amount of alcohol
link |
01:38:10.600
in different drinks across the world.
link |
01:38:12.280
Different countries serve different sized drinks
link |
01:38:14.140
and have different concentrations of alcohol in those drinks.
link |
01:38:16.720
So without going down too much of a rabbit hole
link |
01:38:18.960
and just giving you some good rules of thumb to work with,
link |
01:38:21.800
there have been studies of the percentage of alcohol
link |
01:38:25.000
included in different drinks and the sizes
link |
01:38:26.760
of different drinks that are served in different countries.
link |
01:38:28.620
And here's a kind of a patchwork of those findings.
link |
01:38:32.740
In Japan, one beer, one glass of wine,
link |
01:38:37.240
or one shot of liquor as it's served there tends
link |
01:38:40.360
to include anywhere from seven to eight grams of alcohol.
link |
01:38:44.180
In the US, one beer, which generally is 12 ounces,
link |
01:38:47.240
if it's in a bottle, one glass of wine or a shot of liquor
link |
01:38:52.700
tends to include about 10 to 12 grams of alcohol.
link |
01:38:57.860
And in Russia, one drink of the various sorts
link |
01:39:02.660
that I just described typically will have
link |
01:39:05.840
as much as 24 grams of alcohol because of the differences
link |
01:39:10.660
in the concentration of alcohols and the sizes of drinks
link |
01:39:14.600
that are poured in these different countries, okay?
link |
01:39:16.820
Of course, there are other countries in the world,
link |
01:39:18.200
those countries are also vitally important,
link |
01:39:19.900
but those are the ones that I extracted from the studies
link |
01:39:22.700
that I could find.
link |
01:39:25.180
What does this mean?
link |
01:39:26.020
Well, what we're talking about is that for every 10 grams
link |
01:39:28.700
of alcohol consumed, so that's one beer in the US,
link |
01:39:32.500
maybe a little bit more than one beer in Japan,
link |
01:39:34.900
or basically a third of a drink in Russia,
link |
01:39:38.900
there's a 4 to 13% increase in risk of cancer.
link |
01:39:44.900
That's pretty outrageous, right?
link |
01:39:46.600
And you might think, wait, how could it be
link |
01:39:48.380
that this stuff is even legal?
link |
01:39:50.620
Well, look, as I described before, it's a toxin.
link |
01:39:54.020
It's also a toxin that people enjoy the effects of.
link |
01:39:57.140
I mean, in the US, at least they tried prohibition.
link |
01:40:00.420
It certainly did lead, yes, did lead to a reduction
link |
01:40:04.580
in alcohol-induced health disorders,
link |
01:40:08.020
in particular cirrhosis of the liver.
link |
01:40:09.500
It also led to a lot of crime because it became a substance
link |
01:40:12.980
that a lot of people still wanted
link |
01:40:15.020
and that people were willing to break the law
link |
01:40:17.220
in order to provide, or I should say to sell and provide.
link |
01:40:20.780
But the point is that the more alcohol people drink,
link |
01:40:25.060
the greater their increase of cancer,
link |
01:40:26.500
in particular breast cancer.
link |
01:40:27.620
And that's because of the fact
link |
01:40:29.660
that alcohol has these effects on cells
link |
01:40:33.460
that include changes in gene expression.
link |
01:40:36.540
And cancer, that is the growth of tumors,
link |
01:40:39.380
is a dysregulation in cell cycles, right?
link |
01:40:42.160
A tumor is a aggregation or the proliferation.
link |
01:40:45.500
Aggregation is stuff sticking together, by the way.
link |
01:40:47.540
Proliferation is stuff duplicating.
link |
01:40:50.140
A proliferation and aggregation of cells
link |
01:40:52.980
that could be a glioma, glial cells, glioma, brain tumor,
link |
01:40:56.420
right, it could be lymphoma,
link |
01:40:57.700
so within the lymph tissue, et cetera.
link |
01:41:00.620
The mutations that alcohol induces to cause this
link |
01:41:03.940
are wide ranging.
link |
01:41:05.260
Some of those are starting to start to be understood.
link |
01:41:07.260
For those of you that are interested in cell biology,
link |
01:41:08.940
I'll just mention that the PD-1 pathway,
link |
01:41:11.500
again, this is super specialized
link |
01:41:14.180
and for the aficionados only.
link |
01:41:15.780
You don't need to know this.
link |
01:41:17.180
The PD-1 pathway seems to be upregulated.
link |
01:41:19.280
And we knew this from the discussion earlier,
link |
01:41:21.840
there's a downregulation
link |
01:41:23.460
in some of the anti-inflammatory molecules
link |
01:41:27.740
that help suppress this proliferation of cancers.
link |
01:41:31.380
Nowadays, there's a lot of interest in the fact
link |
01:41:33.300
that the immune system is constantly combating cancers
link |
01:41:37.340
that exist in us all the time.
link |
01:41:38.700
You know, little tumors start growing
link |
01:41:40.620
and our immune system goes and gobbles them up.
link |
01:41:42.660
Little tumors start growing,
link |
01:41:44.020
the immune system senses inflammation,
link |
01:41:45.860
sends out these incredible cells,
link |
01:41:47.300
these killers B cells and T cells and beats them up.
link |
01:41:51.320
Cancers proliferate and take hold and cause serious problems
link |
01:41:55.140
when the proliferation of cells
link |
01:41:57.260
exceeds the immune system's ability
link |
01:41:59.420
to gobble up and remove those cells.
link |
01:42:00.940
There are other mechanisms of regulating cancers,
link |
01:42:02.920
but that's one of the primary one.
link |
01:42:04.260
And alcohol hits it, again, it's a two hit model.
link |
01:42:07.240
It increases tumor growth and it decreases
link |
01:42:11.340
the sorts of molecules that suppress
link |
01:42:13.420
and combat tumor growth.
link |
01:42:15.280
So again, even low to moderate amounts of alcohol
link |
01:42:18.700
can be problematic for sake of cancers,
link |
01:42:20.660
in particular, breast cancers.
link |
01:42:23.360
Epidemiologists and health specialists
link |
01:42:26.100
love to try and compare different substances
link |
01:42:28.700
in terms of how bad they are.
link |
01:42:30.260
Rarely do they compare substances
link |
01:42:32.280
in terms of how good they are, but sometimes they do.
link |
01:42:35.700
And what they'll sometimes tell you
link |
01:42:38.020
and what you can find in the literature
link |
01:42:39.340
is that ingesting 10 to 15 grams of alcohol a day,
link |
01:42:42.620
so that would be like one beer in the US,
link |
01:42:44.380
one glass of wine,
link |
01:42:45.460
is the same as smoking 10 cigarettes a day.
link |
01:42:48.500
Frankly, it's hard to make that direct relationship
link |
01:42:53.020
really stick because it's a question of
link |
01:42:56.020
how long people inhale,
link |
01:42:57.240
do they have a predisposition to a lung cancer, et cetera.
link |
01:43:00.580
But even if that number is off
link |
01:43:03.420
by plus or minus two cigarettes,
link |
01:43:06.660
or even if that number with the equivalent
link |
01:43:09.540
of one glass of wine equals one cigarette per day,
link |
01:43:12.260
I think there's general consensus now
link |
01:43:14.440
that nicotine consumed by vaping or by cigarette,
link |
01:43:18.500
it's bad for us in terms of lung cancer
link |
01:43:22.540
and other forms of cancer.
link |
01:43:24.020
And for some reason, I don't know why,
link |
01:43:26.500
because this knowledge about alcohol and cancer
link |
01:43:29.400
and these established relationships
link |
01:43:31.660
have been known since the late 1980s.
link |
01:43:33.880
The first landmark paper on this was published in 1987.
link |
01:43:37.620
I can provide a link to that paper.
link |
01:43:38.800
It's actually quite interesting to read.
link |
01:43:41.820
Well, the relationship is there
link |
01:43:45.240
and yet we don't often hear about it, right?
link |
01:43:47.460
In fact, before researching this episode,
link |
01:43:49.560
I had heard before that alcohol can increase cancer risk,
link |
01:43:52.960
but I wasn't aware of just how strong
link |
01:43:55.020
that relationship is.
link |
01:43:56.300
Because of the serious nature of what we're talking about
link |
01:43:58.800
and because I would hate to be confusing
link |
01:44:01.780
or misleading to anybody,
link |
01:44:03.180
I want to just emphasize that this statistic,
link |
01:44:05.760
that there is a four to 13%,
link |
01:44:07.860
depending on which study you look at,
link |
01:44:09.260
a four to 13% increase in the risk of cancer,
link |
01:44:12.460
in particular breast cancer,
link |
01:44:13.680
for every 10 grams of alcohol consumed,
link |
01:44:17.220
that's 10 grams per day.
link |
01:44:18.740
So that's one drink per day.
link |
01:44:20.800
But I do want to emphasize that if that equates
link |
01:44:25.620
to seven drinks per week
link |
01:44:27.180
and all those seven drinks are being consumed
link |
01:44:29.780
on Friday and Saturday,
link |
01:44:31.160
it still averages to 10 grams per day.
link |
01:44:33.800
And I also want to emphasize
link |
01:44:35.140
that there are things that people can do
link |
01:44:37.080
to at least partially offset some of the negative effects
link |
01:44:40.260
of alcohol as it relates to predisposition
link |
01:44:43.340
to the formation of certain kinds of tumors and cancers.
link |
01:44:47.460
I also want to be clear before I say it
link |
01:44:49.480
that doing the things I'm about to tell you
link |
01:44:51.980
is not a guarantee that you're not going to get cancer,
link |
01:44:55.780
nor is it a guarantee that alcohol is not going
link |
01:44:59.300
to lead to an increased predisposition
link |
01:45:02.420
for certain kinds of cancers.
link |
01:45:03.860
And the two things are consumption of folate
link |
01:45:07.220
and other B vitamins, especially B12.
link |
01:45:10.420
You know, the consumption of folate and B12
link |
01:45:14.540
has been shown to decrease cancer risk
link |
01:45:16.980
in people that ingest alcohol,
link |
01:45:19.180
but not completely offset it.
link |
01:45:21.500
Why that is isn't exactly clear.
link |
01:45:23.420
It probably has something to do with the relationship
link |
01:45:25.960
between folate and B12 and other B vitamins
link |
01:45:29.800
in gene regulation pathways that can lead to tumor growth.
link |
01:45:33.980
At some point soon, we will get an expert in cancer biology
link |
01:45:37.100
and in particular in breast cancer biology on the program,
link |
01:45:40.800
and we can ask them about this,
link |
01:45:42.420
but I realize this is going to raise a number of questions
link |
01:45:45.180
and maybe even cause some of you to go out there
link |
01:45:47.360
and start taking folate and other B vitamins and B12.
link |
01:45:50.760
Not incidentally, a lot of the reported hangover supplements
link |
01:45:57.480
and treatments include folate and B12.
link |
01:46:00.340
I don't know if they had the cancer literature in mind
link |
01:46:02.840
when they created those supplements and products.
link |
01:46:06.020
I doubt they did.
link |
01:46:07.880
Alcohol really does disrupt B vitamin pathways,
link |
01:46:11.220
both synthesis pathways and utilization pathways.
link |
01:46:14.240
So sometimes you'll hear,
link |
01:46:15.320
if you get your B vitamins,
link |
01:46:16.780
it helps you recover from hangover more quickly.
link |
01:46:20.280
Again, the literature doesn't support that,
link |
01:46:22.460
but also again, there aren't a lot of studies,
link |
01:46:24.540
but more to the point as it relates to alcohol
link |
01:46:28.100
and the formation of tumors and cancers,
link |
01:46:30.020
it does appear that decreased folate
link |
01:46:33.100
and other B vitamins like B12 are partially responsible
link |
01:46:36.740
for the effect of alcohol and increasing cancer risk.
link |
01:46:40.940
And it does appear that consuming adequate amounts of folate
link |
01:46:45.720
and B12 might, again, might partially really want
link |
01:46:49.300
to bold face and underline and highlight,
link |
01:46:51.260
partially offset some of that increased risk.
link |
01:46:54.340
There's an additional category
link |
01:46:55.720
that I want to highlight, of course,
link |
01:46:58.160
and this is vitally important to state,
link |
01:47:01.180
even though it's obvious,
link |
01:47:02.580
which is that people who are pregnant
link |
01:47:05.400
should absolutely not consume alcohol.
link |
01:47:09.100
Fetal alcohol syndrome is well-known and established.
link |
01:47:13.240
It's terrible.
link |
01:47:14.300
Fetuses experience diminished brain development
link |
01:47:18.140
that's often permanent, diminished limb development,
link |
01:47:21.100
diminished organ development in the periphery,
link |
01:47:23.020
meaning the heart, the lungs, the liver, et cetera.
link |
01:47:25.640
Ingesting alcohol while pregnant is simply a bad idea.
link |
01:47:28.860
And the reason I say this at all is,
link |
01:47:31.860
first of all, it's important to include
link |
01:47:33.300
in an episode like this,
link |
01:47:34.220
but also because we can look at two things.
link |
01:47:37.900
First of all, we can look at mechanism,
link |
01:47:39.400
and then we can also look at some of the lore
link |
01:47:41.980
that still sadly exists out there.
link |
01:47:44.900
Let's take care of the lore that sadly exists first.
link |
01:47:48.400
If you look online,
link |
01:47:50.740
you will sometimes be able to find, sadly,
link |
01:47:54.460
that some people believe that certain kinds of alcohol
link |
01:47:58.500
are not detrimental to fetuses.
link |
01:48:00.340
They'll say, well, champagne is safe
link |
01:48:02.500
for a pregnant mother to drink, but beer is not.
link |
01:48:05.340
That is absolutely categorically false.
link |
01:48:08.380
Alcohol is alcohol.
link |
01:48:10.300
There is no evidence whatsoever
link |
01:48:12.000
that consuming certain types of alcohol
link |
01:48:13.700
is safer for fetuses than others.
link |
01:48:15.580
Alcohol is a toxin,
link |
01:48:16.620
and the reason fetal alcohol syndrome exists
link |
01:48:19.140
is because the ability of that toxin
link |
01:48:21.980
to disrupt cellular processes.
link |
01:48:24.160
Remember tumor growth and the way that alcohol
link |
01:48:27.300
can accelerate tumor growth by proliferation of cells,
link |
01:48:30.740
the wrong cells, the ones you don't want to proliferate?
link |
01:48:33.540
Well, all of embryonic development,
link |
01:48:35.380
all of fetal development, it's not the growth of a tumor.
link |
01:48:38.340
It's obviously the growth of an embryo,
link |
01:48:39.940
and it's done in a very orchestrated way.
link |
01:48:43.460
I started off studying brain development.
link |
01:48:45.100
That's where I got my beginnings in neurobiology,
link |
01:48:47.740
and I still teach embryology to medical students
link |
01:48:50.680
and graduate students.
link |
01:48:52.460
The set of coordinated processes that has to take place
link |
01:48:56.440
from conception to birth in order to give rise
link |
01:48:59.100
to a healthy embryo is so dynamically controlled
link |
01:49:03.260
and so exquisitely precise with checkpoints
link |
01:49:06.700
and recovery mechanisms and redundancy
link |
01:49:09.300
in the genes that are expressed to make sure
link |
01:49:10.900
that if anything goes wrong, it's repaired, et cetera.
link |
01:49:13.720
Alcohol as a mutagen, I haven't used that word yet,
link |
01:49:17.640
but a substance that can mutate DNA
link |
01:49:21.060
through alterations in DNA methylation
link |
01:49:23.100
and these checkpoints in the cell cycle.
link |
01:49:25.300
Alcohol as a mutagen is one of the worst things
link |
01:49:29.300
that a developing embryo can be exposed to.
link |
01:49:31.700
And again, because it's water-soluble and fat-soluble,
link |
01:49:34.880
ingestion of alcohol when people are pregnant
link |
01:49:36.700
passes right to the fetus.
link |
01:49:39.060
Now, I realize that a number of people out there
link |
01:49:41.540
might be thinking, oh goodness,
link |
01:49:42.900
I didn't realize I was pregnant
link |
01:49:45.140
until a certain stage of pregnancy,
link |
01:49:46.900
and before I realized I was ingesting alcohol.
link |
01:49:50.060
Obviously, one can't undo what's been done,
link |
01:49:53.900
but I want to also emphasize that fetal alcohol syndrome,
link |
01:49:57.180
while, yes, there's a full-blown syndrome
link |
01:49:59.520
that manifests as changes in the craniofacial development
link |
01:50:02.060
that are very obvious, and you can look these up,
link |
01:50:03.920
you've probably seen these before, the pictures before,
link |
01:50:05.920
rather, it has to do with eye spacing, forehead size,
link |
01:50:08.660
a number of other features of the craniofacial development,
link |
01:50:11.700
and of course, stuff's going on in the brain too.
link |
01:50:13.580
It's along a continuum.
link |
01:50:15.380
So it is possible that some of the changes that occur
link |
01:50:18.860
are more minor, and thankfully, the young brain,
link |
01:50:22.700
in particular, the early postnatal brain
link |
01:50:24.500
is incredibly plastic.
link |
01:50:25.600
There are things that can be done
link |
01:50:26.780
in order to help recover neural circuits
link |
01:50:28.780
that didn't develop well, et cetera.
link |
01:50:31.780
But even though it's somewhat obvious or should be obvious,
link |
01:50:36.220
I really want to make clear that there's zero evidence
link |
01:50:38.600
whatsoever that certain forms of alcohol
link |
01:50:40.300
are safer for pregnant women to ingest than others.
link |
01:50:42.460
Absolutely wrong.
link |
01:50:43.600
No one who's pregnant should be ingesting alcohol
link |
01:50:46.500
whatsoever, and certainly, if people feel like
link |
01:50:50.220
they can't avoid alcohol while pregnant,
link |
01:50:52.300
they really need to work with somebody
link |
01:50:54.080
to make sure that it just absolutely doesn't happen
link |
01:50:55.900
because it is so detrimental to the developing fetus.
link |
01:50:58.820
Lastly, I want to talk about the effects
link |
01:51:00.380
of alcohol on hormones, and I want to distinguish
link |
01:51:03.860
between low amounts of alcohol intake,
link |
01:51:06.420
higher amounts of alcohol intake,
link |
01:51:07.980
and again, this chronic alcohol intake
link |
01:51:09.940
versus occasional use versus really chronic use,
link |
01:51:13.580
meaning alcoholic or alcoholic use disorder
link |
01:51:16.560
where people are drinking an immense amount
link |
01:51:18.340
on an ongoing basis.
link |
01:51:20.380
The literature on alcohol and hormones is quite extensive,
link |
01:51:23.140
and there are, of course, many,
link |
01:51:24.020
many different types of hormones.
link |
01:51:25.340
The hormones that most often get mentioned
link |
01:51:27.980
and talked about on this podcast are the hormones
link |
01:51:29.820
testosterone and estrogen, which are present
link |
01:51:31.540
in both men and women, and that in both men and women
link |
01:51:34.180
are important for things like libido.
link |
01:51:38.260
They're also responsible for sexual development,
link |
01:51:40.320
actual development of the genitalia
link |
01:51:42.540
before birth and after birth.
link |
01:51:43.900
They're responsible, for instance,
link |
01:51:45.180
estrogen is important for memory and cognition.
link |
01:51:47.360
You never want to drop estrogen too low in men or women
link |
01:51:49.820
because it can disrupt cognition and joint health, et cetera.
link |
01:51:54.540
To keep this discussion relatively constrained,
link |
01:51:56.820
it's fair to say that alcohol, and in particular,
link |
01:52:00.060
the toxic metabolites of alcohol,
link |
01:52:03.320
increase the conversion of testosterone to estrogen.
link |
01:52:07.640
Now, this occurs in a number of different tissues.
link |
01:52:10.620
This is not just occurring in the testes of males.
link |
01:52:12.740
This is occurring in lots of different tissues,
link |
01:52:14.320
and I'll refer you to a excellent review.
link |
01:52:16.380
We'll provide a link in the show note captions.
link |
01:52:18.300
This is a paper that was published in the year 2000,
link |
01:52:21.260
but the data are still quite strong.
link |
01:52:23.620
The journal is called, of all things, Alcohol.
link |
01:52:27.940
There's, yes, literally a journal called Alcohol
link |
01:52:31.100
for the publication of data and reviews
link |
01:52:33.540
on alcohol and its effects.
link |
01:52:34.900
And the title of the paper is,
link |
01:52:36.000
Can Alcohol Promote Aromatization
link |
01:52:38.020
of Androgens to Estrogens?
link |
01:52:39.260
Aromatization is this process of the conversion
link |
01:52:41.640
of testosterone and other androgens to estrogens
link |
01:52:44.580
through things like aromatase enzyme.
link |
01:52:46.740
And this is a beautiful review that describes every tissue
link |
01:52:51.740
or near every tissue from the ovary in females
link |
01:52:54.820
to the placenta, to the liver, to the testes,
link |
01:52:58.420
in which alcohol can increase the aromatization
link |
01:53:02.900
of testosterone to estrogen.
link |
01:53:04.060
Now in females, this may be part of the reason
link |
01:53:06.640
why there's an increase in estrogen-related cancers.
link |
01:53:09.740
Breast cancer can be either estrogen-related
link |
01:53:12.020
or non-estrogen-related.
link |
01:53:13.120
There are other types of estrogen-related cancers
link |
01:53:14.900
outside of breast cancer,
link |
01:53:16.720
but it appears that one reason why alcohol increases
link |
01:53:19.620
the risk of breast cancer is because of this aromatization
link |
01:53:22.940
from, of testosterone, excuse me, to estrogen.
link |
01:53:26.560
In males, accelerated or abnormal conversion
link |
01:53:31.700
of testosterone to estrogen can actually lead to growth
link |
01:53:34.100
of the breast tissue in males, so-called gynecomastia,
link |
01:53:37.280
or other effects of high estrogen,
link |
01:53:39.800
or I should say of altered testosterone-estrogen ratios,
link |
01:53:43.260
because that's really what's important.
link |
01:53:45.400
And these can include things like diminished sex drive,
link |
01:53:48.860
increased fat storage, and a number of other things
link |
01:53:51.560
that I think most people would find to be negative effects.
link |
01:53:55.300
I once talked about the fact that drinking alcohol
link |
01:53:58.640
can increase the aromatization of testosterone to estrogen.
link |
01:54:01.220
I posted that online and I didn't get attacked,
link |
01:54:03.580
but I did get criticized for the fact
link |
01:54:07.560
that it has been shown, yes, has been shown
link |
01:54:09.940
that small amounts of alcohol ingestion,
link |
01:54:11.780
so five grams or so of alcohol ingestion,
link |
01:54:14.140
this would be half a glass of wine or half a glass of beer,
link |
01:54:16.420
at least in some studies showed increases in testosterone,
link |
01:54:19.740
which was kind of surprising, but I should point out,
link |
01:54:22.340
other studies have shown that alcohol ingestion
link |
01:54:25.540
causes decreases in testosterone over time.
link |
01:54:29.160
So there's always this issue
link |
01:54:30.640
of whether or not you're looking at a study
link |
01:54:31.620
of acute exposure versus chronic exposure,
link |
01:54:33.820
one dose versus multiple doses and exposure.
link |
01:54:37.940
I think it's fair to say,
link |
01:54:39.540
based on my read of the literature,
link |
01:54:41.020
this review and other reviews
link |
01:54:42.700
that focus more particularly on humans,
link |
01:54:45.040
that regular ingestion of alcohol
link |
01:54:47.200
is going to increase estrogen levels,
link |
01:54:49.540
whether or not you're male or female,
link |
01:54:50.880
and it's largely doing that through the aromatization process
link |
01:54:54.200
by increasing the aromatase enzyme.
link |
01:54:57.340
Yes, there's some dose dependence,
link |
01:54:59.040
but I think if you're somebody
link |
01:54:59.980
who's trying to optimize your testosterone to estrogen ratio,
link |
01:55:03.220
regardless of whether or not you're male or female,
link |
01:55:05.300
well, then most certainly you're going to want to avoid
link |
01:55:07.780
drinking too much alcohol.
link |
01:55:09.460
So we've covered a lot of topics and data
link |
01:55:11.860
related to the mechanisms of alcohol, hangover, tolerance,
link |
01:55:16.620
cancer risk, et cetera.
link |
01:55:18.180
I acknowledge that I've mainly talked to you
link |
01:55:19.980
about the negative effects of alcohol.
link |
01:55:22.800
I want to acknowledge that many people enjoy alcohol
link |
01:55:26.580
in moderation or even light drinking,
link |
01:55:30.140
the occasional drink or the occasional two drinks,
link |
01:55:32.740
or maybe even on average, one drink per night,
link |
01:55:35.380
so seven drinks per week.
link |
01:55:37.100
I'm certainly not here to tell you
link |
01:55:38.660
what to do and what not to do.
link |
01:55:40.740
I do find it immensely interesting, however,
link |
01:55:43.660
that first of all, alcohol is a known toxin
link |
01:55:46.740
to the cells of the body.
link |
01:55:47.900
Some of you might immediately say,
link |
01:55:49.080
well, wait, what about hormesis?
link |
01:55:50.520
What about this phenomenon where if we regularly
link |
01:55:52.740
ingest a toxin, it makes us stronger?
link |
01:55:54.780
In other words, what doesn't kill us makes us stronger.
link |
01:55:57.100
Yeah, there's some reason to believe
link |
01:55:59.340
that might be beneficial in terms of some forms
link |
01:56:02.900
of cellular resilience, maybe, maybe, no, sorry.
link |
01:56:06.540
It doesn't work that way.
link |
01:56:07.620
There are processes of hormesis in which, for instance,
link |
01:56:10.860
exposing yourself safely to increases in adrenaline
link |
01:56:14.660
through ice baths or other things that increase adrenaline
link |
01:56:17.820
can raise your so-called stress threshold.
link |
01:56:20.080
But here we're talking about cellular stress
link |
01:56:22.700
and damage to cells.
link |
01:56:24.760
So my read of the literature, and again, this is my read,
link |
01:56:27.900
and I invite others to provide studies,
link |
01:56:30.800
or I would prefer actually collections of studies
link |
01:56:33.260
that point in the direction, if they exist,
link |
01:56:35.880
that alcohol can be beneficial.
link |
01:56:39.060
But my read of the literature, or I should say,
link |
01:56:42.340
my understanding of what I would call the center of mass
link |
01:56:45.060
of the literature on alcohol is that no consumption,
link |
01:56:49.620
zero consumption, consumption of zero ounces of alcohol
link |
01:56:53.860
is going to be better for your health
link |
01:56:55.980
than low to moderate consumption of alcohol.
link |
01:56:59.140
And that low to moderate consumption of alcohol
link |
01:57:02.340
is going to be better for you, of course,
link |
01:57:04.340
than moderately high to high alcohol consumption
link |
01:57:08.480
on the order of 12 to 24 or more drinks per week.
link |
01:57:12.260
I realize that for most people listening to this,
link |
01:57:15.660
it's probably low to moderate alcohol consumption
link |
01:57:19.660
that is part of their standard repertoire.
link |
01:57:23.040
And I'm not here to give you justification for doing that,
link |
01:57:26.380
nor am I going to tell you not to do that.
link |
01:57:28.360
I would like you to consider perhaps, however,
link |
01:57:31.540
the negative effects that we understand
link |
01:57:33.920
and that are documented.
link |
01:57:34.780
For instance, the negative effects of alcohol
link |
01:57:37.580
in the gut microbiome and the things that you can do
link |
01:57:40.480
to better support your gut microbiome.
link |
01:57:42.580
The negative effects on the stress system,
link |
01:57:45.000
that HPA axis that we talked about earlier,
link |
01:57:47.140
and the fact that even low to moderate levels
link |
01:57:49.580
of alcohol consumption can increase our levels of stress
link |
01:57:52.080
when we're not drinking,
link |
01:57:53.860
and to think about acquiring some tools
link |
01:57:57.340
and getting some proficiency with tools,
link |
01:58:00.080
behavioral or otherwise,
link |
01:58:01.140
that can help you with stress modulation
link |
01:58:03.260
that don't involve alcohol consumption.
link |
01:58:05.940
Again, the point here is to illustrate
link |
01:58:08.980
where the problems lie with alcohol consumption,
link |
01:58:11.100
but also what I've tried to do
link |
01:58:13.220
is to point you to some resources
link |
01:58:14.660
that can help offset some of those negative effects.
link |
01:58:17.340
Will they offset all the effects?
link |
01:58:19.380
I can't say that for sure,
link |
01:58:20.940
but certainly taking measures
link |
01:58:24.020
to offset some of the negative effects
link |
01:58:25.580
of any alcohol consumption
link |
01:58:26.760
that you might be having or doing
link |
01:58:29.640
is going to be beneficial to you.
link |
01:58:31.500
And those tools and protocols
link |
01:58:32.740
are going to be health promoting in any case.
link |
01:58:34.720
If you're learning from and or enjoying this podcast,
link |
01:58:37.100
please subscribe to our YouTube channel.
link |
01:58:39.100
That's a terrific zero cost way to support us.
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In addition, please subscribe to the podcast
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01:58:43.940
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01:58:45.660
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link |
01:58:47.460
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link |
01:58:49.700
If you have questions for us
link |
01:58:50.940
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link |
01:58:52.800
or suggestions of topics you'd like us to cover
link |
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link |
01:58:56.760
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link |
01:58:58.260
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link |
01:58:59.460
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link |
01:59:01.160
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link |
01:59:03.140
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link |
01:59:04.860
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link |
01:59:06.540
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link |
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link |
01:59:26.640
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link |
01:59:27.800
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link |
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Again, that's Huberman Lab on Instagram
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link |
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Please also check out our neural network monthly newsletter.
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This is a newsletter that has summaries of podcast episodes.
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It also includes a lot of actionable protocols.
link |
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It's very easy to sign up for the newsletter.
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You go to HubermanLab.com, click on the menu,
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02:00:01.020
Again, just go to HubermanLab.com
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02:00:03.060
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02:00:05.520
I'd also like to point out
link |
02:00:06.540
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link |
02:00:09.020
So these are brief clips, anywhere from three to 10 minutes
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that encompass single concepts and actionable protocols
link |
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related to sleep, to focus,
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interviews with various guests.
link |
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We talk about things like caffeine,
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02:00:21.520
when to drink caffeine relative to sleep,
link |
02:00:23.960
alcohol, when and how,
link |
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and if anyone should ingest it relative to sleep,
link |
02:00:28.340
dopamine, serotonin, mental health, physical health,
link |
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and on and on,
link |
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all the things that relate to the topics
link |
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link |
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You can find that easily by going to YouTube,
link |
02:00:37.820
look for Huberman Lab Clips in the search area,
link |
02:00:40.740
and it will take you there.
link |
02:00:41.580
Subscribe, and we are constantly updating those
link |
02:00:43.940
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link |
02:00:44.780
This is especially useful, I believe,
link |
02:00:46.180
for people that have missed some of the earlier episodes
link |
02:00:48.220
or you're still working through the back catalog
link |
02:00:49.820
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link |
02:00:50.900
which admittedly can be rather long.
link |
02:00:53.020
And last, but certainly not least,
link |
02:00:55.340
thank you for your interest in science.
link |
02:00:57.140
I'll see you next time.