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Using Play to Rewire & Improve Your Brain | Huberman Lab Podcast #58



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Welcome to the Huberman Lab Podcast,
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where we discuss science and science-based tools
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for everyday life.
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I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology
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and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine.
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Today, we are going to talk about the biology,
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psychology, and utility of play.
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Play is something that normally we associate
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with children's games, and indeed with being a child.
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Much of our childhood development centers around play,
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whether or not it's organized play or spontaneous play.
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But as adults, we also need to play.
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And today I'm going to talk about what I like to refer to
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as the power of play.
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The power of play resides in play's ability
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to change our nervous system for the better
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so that we can perform many activities,
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not just play activities, better.
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Play can also function as a way to explore new ways of being
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in different scenarios, in work, in relationships,
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in settings of all kind,
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and indeed also in the relationship to oneself.
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In fact, we are going to explore
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how assuming different identities
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during the same game of play or the same forms of play
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has been shown to be immensely powerful
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for allowing people to engage in more creative thinking
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and dynamic thinking and indeed to become better leaders
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and more effective workers and students and learners
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and happier people.
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I'm also going to cover some data that shows
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that learning to play properly
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can enhance one's ability to focus
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and is an active area of research
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for treatment of things like ADHD,
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attention deficit hyperactivity disorder,
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just as a little sneak preview of where that's headed.
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Children who do not access enough play
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during certain stages of childhood
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are more prone to develop ADHD.
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The good news is all of us,
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regardless of whether or not we have a ADHD or not,
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whether or not we had ample access to play
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during childhood or not,
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can engage and grow the neural circuits
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that allow for this incredible power of play.
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And this can be done again at any stage of life.
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Today, we're going to talk about the protocols, the science.
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We will review all of that.
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And I promise you'll come away with a lot of knowledge,
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whether or not you're a parent, whether or not you're a child
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whether or not you're a person of any age,
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you're going to have tools and knowledge
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that will benefit you.
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Before we begin, I want to share with you the results
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of what I think to be an extremely exciting
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and certainly an actionable study that was just published
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in the journal Scientific Reports.
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This is an excellent journal, Nature Press Journal,
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peer reviewed, et cetera.
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And the findings center around what sorts of devices
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we happen to be reading on and accessing information on
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and how that's impacting our physiology
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and our capacity to learn.
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One of the more frequent questions I get
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is what are all these devices, phones, tablets, computers,
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video games, et cetera, doing to our brains?
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And finally, there's some good peer reviewed data
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to look at that and to address it directly.
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This study, first author Honma, H-O-N-M-A, Honma et al.,
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is entitled Reading on a Smartphone Affects Psi Generation,
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that's S-I-G-H, Psi Generation,
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Brain Activity and Comprehension.
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And to just summarize what they found,
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they ran a study on 34 healthy individuals
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and had them either read material on a smartphone
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or on regular printed paper or a book.
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And what they found is that comprehension on devices,
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in particular smartphones, is much poorer,
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much worse than it is when one reads on actual paper.
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Now, some of you may experience this yourselves.
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Now, they compared smartphones with paper
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and what they found was that
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when they looked at people's breathing,
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the normal patterns of breathing
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that people were engaging in
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did not differ between people reading on a smartphone
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or reading from paper.
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However, one particular feature of breathing did differ.
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And that particular feature
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is what we call physiological size.
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I've talked a lot about physiological size
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on this podcast and on social media.
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We had a terrific guest, Professor Jack Feldman
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from University of California, Los Angeles,
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who's a world expert in breathing and respiration
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and its impacts on the brain
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and how brain controls breathing and respiration.
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And what you can learn from that episode,
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or I'll just tell you again right now,
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is that every five minutes or so,
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whether or not we are asleep or awake,
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we do what's called a physiological sigh,
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which is a big, deep inhale,
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often a double inhale followed by a long exhale.
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It goes something like this.
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Now you might think, oh, I never breathe like that,
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but you do.
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Unless there's something severely wrong with your brainstem,
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every five minutes or so,
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you do one of these physiological sighs,
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which reopens all the little hundreds of millions of sacks
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in your lungs called the avioli
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that bring in more oxygen
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as a consequence of that big, deep double inhale.
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And then you are able to exhale carbon dioxide,
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offload carbon dioxide through that long exhale.
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I've also encouraged people to use the physiological sigh
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deliberately, not just spontaneously,
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as a way to reduce their stress quickly.
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And indeed my lab works on physiological sighs
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and has been exploring this.
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And they're quite effective in reducing
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our stress very fast.
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Reading on a smartphone seems to suppress
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physiological sighing.
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People aren't aware that it's happening, but it's happening.
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Some people have talked about so-called email apnea,
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which is the fact that people hold their breath
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while they email or while they text,
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and indeed many people do that.
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This is distinct from email or texting apnea.
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What's happening here is people are reading on the phone
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and for whatever reason,
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and I'll talk about what the likely reason is,
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but for whatever reason, they're suppressing their sighing.
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And as a consequence, the brain is not getting enough oxygen
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and is not offloading enough carbon dioxide.
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And another finding in this study
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was that the prefrontal cortex,
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an area of the brain that's involved in focus
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and attention and learning becomes hyperactive
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in a kind of desperate attempt to focus.
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All of this can be summarized by saying,
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if you happen to read on a device,
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whether or not it's a tablet,
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a standard computer screen of any kind,
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but in particular on a smartphone,
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regardless of how small or large that smartphone screen is,
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you want to remind yourself to engage
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in these physiological sighs fairly regularly.
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And it might even be better to just read the most,
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or at least the key issues and things
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that you're trying to learn about the key information
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from paper, either books or printed out material
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of some other sort.
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What's the underlying mechanism here?
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Well, one of the reasons I like this study so much
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is that it brings together two of my laboratories
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and my particular interests in neuroscience,
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which is how does our visual system and the aperture,
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meaning the size of our visual window,
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relate to our so-called autonomic function
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or our internal state?
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And basically what's happening here is
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as any of us bring our visual window in more narrowly,
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as we contract our visual window,
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which is exactly what happens
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when we're looking at a little smartphone in front of us,
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it seems to suppress the breathing apparatus
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because we know that physiological sighs
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are controlled by a specific set of neurons
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in the brainstem called the parafacial nucleus
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discovered by Dr. Jack Feldman.
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And so there must be a mechanism
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whereby when we tighten our visual window,
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we somehow, and we don't know yet how this happens,
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but somehow suppress the activity of these neurons
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in the parafacial nucleus
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that generate this physiological sighs.
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So again, you have two choices,
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or I suppose you have many choices,
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but two main choices to contend with this new information.
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One is that you remind yourself to engage in deep breathing
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and in particular physiological sighs
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every five minutes or so
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while reading anything or texting on your smartphone.
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The other would be, again,
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if there's material that you really need to learn
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for sake of regurgitation later
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or for something particularly important,
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try and read that from either a larger screen
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or even better would be from printed materials or books.
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Another reason I bring all that up
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is that it relates to a larger theme,
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which is that I get many, many questions about ADHD
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and about people's challenges with focus.
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And much of what we're told these days
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is that we are challenged with focus
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because of the hundreds of videos
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that we can see streaming by us in any moment on our phone,
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which probably is true.
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The fact that the information that we're reading
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on the internet and on our phones
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is emotionally disturbing or distressing in some way.
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And that probably is true as well in many cases.
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This study really points to the fact
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that independent of the information
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that we are looking at or consuming,
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independent whether or not it's movies or texts
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or anything of that sort,
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the mere size of the window, the aperture,
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the screen that we're looking at
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is also strongly impacting our ability
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to learn and remember information.
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So broaden that visual window, print things out,
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look at a book.
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I didn't design the system.
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I always say, you know,
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however our visual system and respiratory system
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happened to evolve,
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I wasn't consulted at the design phase.
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This is just simply how your brain circuits work.
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So if you want to learn things, widen that visual window
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and even better print things out,
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pick up a book or read on a tablet even,
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but try and make that tablet larger
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than a smartphone screen size.
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Before we begin our discussion about the power of play,
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I'd like to emphasize that this podcast
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is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford.
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It is however, part of my desire and effort
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to bring zero cost to consumer information about science
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and science related tools to the general public.
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In keeping with that theme,
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I'd like to thank the sponsors of today's podcast.
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Our first sponsor is Athletic Greens, also now called AG1.
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I started drinking Athletic Greens way back in 2012.
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And so I'm delighted that they're sponsoring the podcast.
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The reason I started drinking it in 2012
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and the reason that I still drink it once or twice a day
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is that with Athletic Greens,
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The probiotics are particularly important
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because they encourage health of the so-called
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gut microbiome.
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We're going to be talking a lot about the gut microbiome
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But to make a long story short,
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I've spent a lifetime working on the visual system.
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And one of the many challenges
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that your visual system has to deal with is, for instance,
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I love it because I don't have to constantly be taking off
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00:13:17.900
because I wanted a mattress that wasn't too firm
link |
00:13:19.900
and not too soft.
link |
00:13:20.740
And so I sleep on a dusk mattress.
link |
00:13:22.500
You should figure out what mattress would be ideal for you.
link |
00:13:25.260
If you're interested in upgrading your mattress,
link |
00:13:26.960
you can go to helixsleep.com slash Huberman,
link |
00:13:29.820
take their two-minute sleep quiz
link |
00:13:31.380
and they'll match you to a customized mattress
link |
00:13:33.140
and you'll get up to $200 off any of your mattress orders
link |
00:13:36.740
and two free pillows.
link |
00:13:37.740
Again, that's $200 off and two free pillows.
link |
00:13:40.680
The pillows are excellent.
link |
00:13:41.520
I also use Helix pillows.
link |
00:13:42.980
They have a 10-year warranty.
link |
00:13:44.240
You get to try out the mattress
link |
00:13:45.620
for up to a hundred nights risk-free.
link |
00:13:47.220
If you don't like it, they'll come pick it up, take it away.
link |
00:13:49.400
But I think you'll love it.
link |
00:13:50.820
Again, if interested, you can go to helixsleep.com
link |
00:13:53.180
slash Huberman, there you can get up to $200 off
link |
00:13:56.340
and the two free pillows.
link |
00:13:57.880
Let's talk about play.
link |
00:13:59.940
Now in researching this episode,
link |
00:14:01.500
I thought that I was going to come across a bunch of papers
link |
00:14:04.280
that say this brain area connects to that brain area,
link |
00:14:07.740
which controls play in animals.
link |
00:14:09.660
And there's similar areas in babies and in adults.
link |
00:14:12.580
And indeed that's true.
link |
00:14:13.540
And we will talk about brain circuitry.
link |
00:14:16.080
But I think more importantly is to understand
link |
00:14:18.540
what is the utility of play?
link |
00:14:20.580
You know, why do we play when we're younger?
link |
00:14:22.140
Why do we tend to play less as we get older?
link |
00:14:24.580
And what in the world is play for?
link |
00:14:27.440
Some of us would be categorized as more playful.
link |
00:14:30.520
I'm sure that you know people like this.
link |
00:14:32.260
Maybe you are like this.
link |
00:14:33.100
People that can walk into a room,
link |
00:14:35.080
a social setting of any kind,
link |
00:14:36.500
and they seem to already kind of have a playful,
link |
00:14:39.160
maybe even a mischievous quality about them.
link |
00:14:41.020
We'll talk about mischief a little bit later.
link |
00:14:42.820
But they sort of look at an environment
link |
00:14:44.880
or a social setting as an opportunity
link |
00:14:46.740
for different kinds of novel interactions.
link |
00:14:49.240
Other people, and I'd probably put myself
link |
00:14:51.020
into this category,
link |
00:14:52.340
if I walk into a novel environment,
link |
00:14:53.840
I tend to be more in the mode of just assessing
link |
00:14:56.660
what that environment is like.
link |
00:14:58.260
I'm not a particularly spontaneously playful person,
link |
00:15:01.040
although around certain individuals
link |
00:15:02.380
I might be more spontaneously playful.
link |
00:15:04.900
We are all on a continuum of this kind of seriousness
link |
00:15:07.940
to playful nature.
link |
00:15:10.140
It turns out that all young animals, including humans,
link |
00:15:13.660
have more playfulness and tend to engage
link |
00:15:15.900
in more spontaneous play in their earlier years
link |
00:15:18.380
than in their later years.
link |
00:15:20.700
And therein lies a very interesting portal
link |
00:15:22.940
to understanding what the utility,
link |
00:15:25.560
what the purpose of play is.
link |
00:15:27.580
First of all, I want to lay down a couple of key facts
link |
00:15:30.420
about play that point to the fact
link |
00:15:33.080
that play is not just about games.
link |
00:15:35.640
Play is about much, much more.
link |
00:15:38.100
And play, and in particular, how we played as a child,
link |
00:15:42.220
and still how we can play as adults
link |
00:15:44.540
is really how we test and expand our potential roles
link |
00:15:48.060
in all kinds of interactions.
link |
00:15:50.680
One of the most important, interesting,
link |
00:15:52.540
and surprising features of play
link |
00:15:54.660
that I'd like everyone to know about
link |
00:15:56.660
is that it is homeostatically regulated.
link |
00:15:59.580
Some of you are familiar with the term homeostasis.
link |
00:16:01.620
Homeostasis is just this aspect of biological systems
link |
00:16:05.220
to try and remain in balance.
link |
00:16:08.020
If you stay awake for a long period of time,
link |
00:16:09.620
you tend to want to sleep for a long period of time.
link |
00:16:12.620
If you slept for a long period of time
link |
00:16:14.220
and you're very rested,
link |
00:16:15.060
then you tend to be very energetic the next day.
link |
00:16:16.780
And of course, I know people out there will immediately say,
link |
00:16:18.840
oh, well, if I sleep too long,
link |
00:16:20.120
then I'm groggy the next day.
link |
00:16:21.220
Of course, there are exceptions.
link |
00:16:22.580
But in general, sleep and wakefulness
link |
00:16:25.540
are in homeostatic balance.
link |
00:16:27.860
Thirst and water consumption are in homeostatic balance.
link |
00:16:31.020
If you don't drink any fluids for a while,
link |
00:16:32.760
you tend to get more thirsty.
link |
00:16:34.140
You drink fluids and your thirst tends to diminish.
link |
00:16:37.420
Likewise with food,
link |
00:16:38.620
likewise with most all motivated behaviors.
link |
00:16:41.540
Well, one of the most important discoveries
link |
00:16:43.340
of the last century was largely the work
link |
00:16:45.740
of a guy named Jak Pengsepp.
link |
00:16:47.660
No, it's not Jack, it's Jak Pengsepp,
link |
00:16:50.140
who really pioneered this understanding
link |
00:16:52.280
of the biology of play and relating that
link |
00:16:54.660
to the psychology of play in animals and humans.
link |
00:16:57.220
He's considered a kind of luminary in the field of play.
link |
00:17:01.500
And what a great title to have, right?
link |
00:17:02.820
If you could have a title and be a scientific luminary,
link |
00:17:04.700
you might as well be the play guy.
link |
00:17:06.940
In fact, he was known,
link |
00:17:08.460
and I'll get into this later as to why,
link |
00:17:09.920
but he was known as the rat tickler
link |
00:17:12.140
because he tickled rats and he actually found
link |
00:17:14.500
that rodents and animals of many kind
link |
00:17:16.420
generate laughter in response to tickling.
link |
00:17:19.240
And in fact, they don't have the capacity
link |
00:17:21.780
to tickle themselves,
link |
00:17:22.620
something we'll also talk about why that is.
link |
00:17:24.680
And he was called the rat tickler,
link |
00:17:26.620
but then he discovered that many species of animals
link |
00:17:29.580
engage in laughter in response to tickling
link |
00:17:31.460
and they tickle each other.
link |
00:17:32.880
And the reason you don't hear them laughing,
link |
00:17:34.700
no, you can't hear your dog laughing,
link |
00:17:36.300
that isn't laughing, it's something else,
link |
00:17:38.100
is that most animals besides humans
link |
00:17:40.860
laugh at kind of ultrasonic levels of auditory output,
link |
00:17:45.460
meaning the frequencies of sound
link |
00:17:47.120
are just too high for you to hear,
link |
00:17:48.260
but with the appropriate devices,
link |
00:17:50.140
he was able with his colleagues
link |
00:17:51.660
to isolate the so-called rat laughter.
link |
00:17:54.740
And then it turns out there's kitten laughter
link |
00:17:56.400
and there's puppy laughter,
link |
00:17:57.520
and of course there's human laughter.
link |
00:17:59.300
So Jak Pengsup was a very interesting
link |
00:18:01.060
and pioneering person in this field.
link |
00:18:03.260
And he also discovered
link |
00:18:05.100
that play is homeostatically regulated,
link |
00:18:07.500
meaning if animals, including children,
link |
00:18:09.860
are restricted from playing for a certain amount of time,
link |
00:18:12.700
they will play more when given the opportunity,
link |
00:18:15.180
in the same way that if I food restrict you
link |
00:18:16.900
for a long period of time,
link |
00:18:17.900
you will eat more when you are finally allowed to eat.
link |
00:18:21.100
And this is important because it moves this thing
link |
00:18:24.620
that we call play from the dimension
link |
00:18:26.740
of higher order functions or things that evolved recently,
link |
00:18:31.620
that are really kind of at the front edge
link |
00:18:34.420
of human evolution,
link |
00:18:36.060
deeper into the circuitry of the brain,
link |
00:18:39.180
whereby we say the brainstem,
link |
00:18:41.900
the kind of ancient parts of the brain
link |
00:18:43.860
are going to be involved.
link |
00:18:44.780
And in fact, that's the case.
link |
00:18:46.180
As we're going to learn later in the podcast,
link |
00:18:48.660
play is generated through the connectivity
link |
00:18:51.620
of many brain areas,
link |
00:18:53.180
but one of the key brain areas is an area called PAG,
link |
00:18:57.800
periaqueductal gray.
link |
00:18:59.100
The periaqueductal gray is a brainstem area,
link |
00:19:02.540
so it's pretty far back
link |
00:19:03.980
as the brain kind of transitions into the spinal cord.
link |
00:19:06.620
And it's rich with neurons that make endogenous opioids.
link |
00:19:10.940
So these are not the kinds of opioids
link |
00:19:12.520
that are causing the opioid crisis.
link |
00:19:14.860
These are neurons that you and I all have
link |
00:19:17.780
that release endogenous,
link |
00:19:19.180
meaning self-made or biologically made opioids.
link |
00:19:22.580
They go by names like enkephalin and things of that sort.
link |
00:19:26.900
Play evokes small amounts of opioid release into the system.
link |
00:19:31.580
They kind of dope you up a little bit,
link |
00:19:33.380
not so much as one would see if one were
link |
00:19:36.900
to take exogenous opioids.
link |
00:19:38.260
In fact, exogenous opioids, as we now know,
link |
00:19:41.160
are potentially very hazardous,
link |
00:19:43.860
highly high addiction potential, high overdose potential.
link |
00:19:46.780
They cause all sorts of problems.
link |
00:19:48.160
Yes, there are clinical uses for them,
link |
00:19:49.740
but they're causing a lot of problems nowadays.
link |
00:19:51.460
But these endogenous opioids are released
link |
00:19:53.660
in children and adults anytime we engage in play.
link |
00:19:57.500
And that turns out to be a very important chemical state
link |
00:20:00.540
because there's something about having an abundance
link |
00:20:02.860
of these endogenous opioids released into the brain
link |
00:20:06.060
that allows other areas of the brain,
link |
00:20:07.680
like the prefrontal cortex,
link |
00:20:09.060
the area of the front that's responsible
link |
00:20:10.600
for what we call executive function.
link |
00:20:12.060
Executive function is the ability to make predictions,
link |
00:20:14.820
to assess contingencies.
link |
00:20:16.880
Like if I do this, then that happens.
link |
00:20:18.900
If I do that, then that happens.
link |
00:20:20.580
Well, prefrontal cortex is often seen
link |
00:20:22.540
as a kind of rigid executive of the whole brain.
link |
00:20:25.820
That's one way to view it,
link |
00:20:27.140
but probably a better way to view it
link |
00:20:28.580
is that the prefrontal cortex works in concert
link |
00:20:31.340
with these other more primitive circuitries.
link |
00:20:34.020
And when the periaqueductal gray releases
link |
00:20:37.660
these endogenous opioids during play,
link |
00:20:40.160
the prefrontal cortex doesn't get stupid.
link |
00:20:42.720
It actually gets smarter.
link |
00:20:44.220
It develops the ability to take on different roles
link |
00:20:47.780
and explore different contingencies.
link |
00:20:49.840
And we're going to talk about role play later
link |
00:20:51.940
in different contexts.
link |
00:20:52.980
And what we will find is that so much of play
link |
00:20:56.140
is really about exploring things in a way
link |
00:20:59.600
that feels safe enough to explore, right?
link |
00:21:02.780
This is not what happens when we drive down the street
link |
00:21:04.940
or when we bike down the street.
link |
00:21:06.460
When we are headed to work commuting on our bicycle
link |
00:21:08.780
or walking or driving, we tend to be very linear
link |
00:21:11.160
and we tend to be very goal-directed.
link |
00:21:12.820
We're not going to just take a new street just because.
link |
00:21:15.220
We're not going to be spontaneously
link |
00:21:17.140
riding in the middle of the road
link |
00:21:18.260
and then on the sidewalk and then back and forth.
link |
00:21:20.120
Although I can remember as a kid,
link |
00:21:21.180
I was doing some of that.
link |
00:21:22.020
I liked to jump off curb cuts when I was a kid
link |
00:21:23.620
and then eventually I graduated, sorry to the cyclist,
link |
00:21:26.380
but I graduated to skateboarding.
link |
00:21:27.800
And then I looked on skateboarding, you're always kind
link |
00:21:29.820
of exploring terrain, but you know, as I got older,
link |
00:21:31.940
actually I find myself becoming much more linear.
link |
00:21:33.860
I just don't play with my commute very much.
link |
00:21:36.380
It's really just about getting to work and then working.
link |
00:21:39.560
When endogenous opioids are in our system,
link |
00:21:41.860
when we were in this mode of play,
link |
00:21:44.780
the prefrontal cortex starts seeing
link |
00:21:47.300
and exploring many more possibilities of how we interact
link |
00:21:50.700
with our environment, with others,
link |
00:21:52.740
and the roles that we can assume for ourselves.
link |
00:21:55.780
And so we're going to dissect one by one
link |
00:21:58.340
the different aspects of play, role play, social play,
link |
00:22:01.540
individual play, imaginary play, competitive play.
link |
00:22:04.620
There are enormous number of dimensions of play.
link |
00:22:06.620
And by the end of this episode,
link |
00:22:08.660
we're going to arrive at a very key feature.
link |
00:22:11.120
The key feature is one that's called
link |
00:22:13.760
your personal play identity.
link |
00:22:16.100
All of us have what we call a personal play identity.
link |
00:22:19.800
This personal play identity was laid down during development
link |
00:22:23.180
and it is the identity that you assume in playful scenarios.
link |
00:22:27.580
And it is the identity that you adopt
link |
00:22:29.880
in non-playful scenarios.
link |
00:22:32.060
The great news is that your personal play identity
link |
00:22:34.780
is plastic throughout your entire lifespan.
link |
00:22:37.100
You can adjust your personal play identity
link |
00:22:38.940
in ways that will benefit you in work and relationships
link |
00:22:41.800
and your overall level of happiness.
link |
00:22:43.400
We will discuss protocols and ways to do that.
link |
00:22:45.960
But I do want to give a nod to the late Jack,
link |
00:22:49.100
Jack, excuse me, Jack Pangstep, the rat tickler.
link |
00:22:53.220
And I also want to just give a nod to play generally.
link |
00:22:56.520
As we move forward in the discussion,
link |
00:22:57.900
what I'd love for everyone to do is to stop thinking
link |
00:23:00.420
about play as just a child activity,
link |
00:23:04.200
not just a sport related activity,
link |
00:23:07.060
but really as an exploration in contingencies.
link |
00:23:10.600
Again, it's an exploration of if I do A, what happens?
link |
00:23:15.260
If I do B, what happens?
link |
00:23:16.860
If someone else takes on behavior or attitude C,
link |
00:23:21.340
what am I going to do?
link |
00:23:22.700
And play is really where we can expand our catalog
link |
00:23:26.180
of potential outcomes and it can be enormously enriching.
link |
00:23:29.700
And indeed, as we'll talk about the tinkerers of the world,
link |
00:23:33.700
the true creatives,
link |
00:23:35.400
the people that build incredible technologies and art,
link |
00:23:38.660
and also they just have incredibly rich,
link |
00:23:40.700
emotional and intellectual and social lives
link |
00:23:43.360
all have a strong element of play.
link |
00:23:46.100
And so today I hope to convince you of some protocols
link |
00:23:48.520
that will allow you to expand your various roles in life
link |
00:23:51.540
through the portal of play.
link |
00:23:53.260
So we established that play is homeostatic,
link |
00:23:55.780
meaning we all need to do it.
link |
00:23:57.580
Many of us, including myself,
link |
00:23:59.980
haven't played that much as adults.
link |
00:24:01.900
We're all pretty busy.
link |
00:24:03.300
Number of us are stressed.
link |
00:24:04.300
We got a lot to do in life.
link |
00:24:05.900
But as children, most all of us engage in a lot of play.
link |
00:24:10.740
And in looking at the way that very young children
link |
00:24:13.880
and especially toddlers play, we can learn a lot
link |
00:24:17.420
because it reveals the fundamental rules
link |
00:24:19.940
by which the toddler brain interacts with the world.
link |
00:24:23.380
Now, one of the key things about the baby brain
link |
00:24:26.980
is that the baby brain somehow knows
link |
00:24:29.760
that it can't do everything in the world, right?
link |
00:24:32.540
If a baby needs something, it generally will cry
link |
00:24:36.820
or make some sort of vocalization
link |
00:24:38.820
or some sort of facial expression or combination of those.
link |
00:24:41.620
And the caretaker, whoever that may be, will provide it.
link |
00:24:44.180
This is an ancient hardwired mechanism
link |
00:24:46.340
whereby the so-called autonomic nervous system
link |
00:24:48.240
that generates stress
link |
00:24:49.460
will create this kind of whining and discomfort,
link |
00:24:51.940
maybe arriving, maybe the baby gets kind of red in the face,
link |
00:24:55.140
and the caretaker delivers something
link |
00:24:58.660
based on a good guess of what that baby needs.
link |
00:25:02.420
So maybe it's breast milk, maybe it's bottled milk,
link |
00:25:05.220
maybe it's a diaper change,
link |
00:25:06.740
maybe it's to be warmed up if the baby is cold,
link |
00:25:09.180
maybe it's to be cooled down if the baby is too warm,
link |
00:25:11.460
maybe if the baby's in its little onesie thing,
link |
00:25:13.540
it's feeling restricted and just wants to move
link |
00:25:15.420
and they'll get taken out of their crib or their stroller,
link |
00:25:18.760
whatever it is, and allowed to stretch out on the floor.
link |
00:25:21.260
Remember, the baby doesn't know exactly what it needs,
link |
00:25:23.420
it only knows the state of discomfort.
link |
00:25:25.900
And of course, we don't know exactly
link |
00:25:27.460
what babies and toddlers are thinking
link |
00:25:29.420
because they can't express themselves with language yet.
link |
00:25:32.300
But what's key to understand is the rule
link |
00:25:34.460
or the contingency that is set up in that scenario.
link |
00:25:37.100
In that scenario, the child feels some discomfort,
link |
00:25:42.300
expresses that discomfort verbally
link |
00:25:44.240
or through a facial expression or both,
link |
00:25:46.420
and then some force,
link |
00:25:48.300
some person from the outside world resolves it.
link |
00:25:51.980
And so the very young baby,
link |
00:25:54.300
and indeed many children up to certain ages,
link |
00:25:56.540
and let's confess, many adults,
link |
00:25:59.260
are not able to meet or adjust
link |
00:26:01.460
their internal states of stress,
link |
00:26:02.940
and so they look to things outside of them.
link |
00:26:04.660
That's the first rule, the fundamental rule
link |
00:26:07.140
that we all learn when we come into life,
link |
00:26:09.120
that when in a state of discomfort,
link |
00:26:11.420
to look outside our immediate biology,
link |
00:26:14.860
beyond the confines of our skin and find a solution,
link |
00:26:17.920
a sip of water.
link |
00:26:18.760
For adults, it might be a sip of alcohol, right?
link |
00:26:21.500
Probably not the best tool to relieve stress,
link |
00:26:23.500
but that's one that many people do, in fact, engage in.
link |
00:26:25.980
For the baby that's hungry,
link |
00:26:27.060
the bottle milk comes from the outside.
link |
00:26:28.740
As we gain more proficiency in moving through life
link |
00:26:31.100
and we can get things for ourselves,
link |
00:26:32.920
we still often bring things from the external world in
link |
00:26:35.740
to resolve this, what I'm calling autonomic discomfort
link |
00:26:40.020
or autonomic dysregulation.
link |
00:26:43.940
That's not a game, but that's a rule.
link |
00:26:47.140
As we advance from infant to toddler,
link |
00:26:50.300
we start to think more in terms of where we are
link |
00:26:53.940
and what we own relative to what's out there in the world.
link |
00:26:58.020
And now in the world of child psychology,
link |
00:27:00.700
there's a somewhat famous poem
link |
00:27:02.620
that was written by a research child psychologist.
link |
00:27:05.760
His name was Burton White,
link |
00:27:07.200
and he wrote a poem called The Toddler's Creed.
link |
00:27:09.900
The Toddler's Creed defines well
link |
00:27:11.940
what the rules and contingencies of play are
link |
00:27:15.460
in very young children.
link |
00:27:16.720
And it reveals to us just how narrow
link |
00:27:19.540
and limited their worldview is
link |
00:27:22.080
and how self-centered their world is.
link |
00:27:24.860
So The Toddler's Creed, read quickly,
link |
00:27:26.820
because I don't want to take up too much time with this,
link |
00:27:28.220
is if I want it, it's mine.
link |
00:27:30.700
If I give it to you and change my mind later, it's mine.
link |
00:27:33.860
For anyone that's played with a toddler,
link |
00:27:35.180
you can imagine this in your mind.
link |
00:27:36.760
If I can take it away from you, it's mine.
link |
00:27:39.440
If I had a little while ago, it's mine.
link |
00:27:42.420
If we are building something together,
link |
00:27:44.320
all the pieces are mine.
link |
00:27:46.060
If it looks just like mine, it's mine.
link |
00:27:48.700
If it's mine, it will never belong to anyone else,
link |
00:27:51.100
no matter what.
link |
00:27:52.900
And of course, as we hear this,
link |
00:27:55.380
it sounds quite awful, right?
link |
00:27:56.700
And yet this is actually a reflection
link |
00:27:58.740
of what a healthy toddler would think about the world,
link |
00:28:01.860
that the objects and things,
link |
00:28:03.260
and even the people in the world are theirs,
link |
00:28:06.160
that they are actually possessions that belong to them.
link |
00:28:08.500
And of course, some people never actually transitioned
link |
00:28:10.900
beyond this stage of moral and social development.
link |
00:28:14.300
And there are indeed some adults
link |
00:28:16.660
that fit The Toddler's Creed.
link |
00:28:18.100
And you're welcome to share this with them
link |
00:28:20.460
if ever you think that it might be of benefit
link |
00:28:22.260
to their self-reflection.
link |
00:28:24.140
But in all seriousness, Burton White's Toddler's Creed
link |
00:28:28.660
is really grounded in this transition
link |
00:28:31.400
from when we are infants
link |
00:28:32.480
and we have to have things delivered to us,
link |
00:28:34.720
to the point where we are toddlers
link |
00:28:36.380
and we can access things in the world,
link |
00:28:38.500
but we tend to assume that they are all ours.
link |
00:28:40.820
And then the next stage is the really key stage
link |
00:28:43.920
as it relates to play.
link |
00:28:44.840
Because in the next stage of development
link |
00:28:47.420
is where young children
link |
00:28:48.900
start to interact with other children,
link |
00:28:50.780
and there's an exchange and a possession
link |
00:28:53.300
and then a letting go of certain things.
link |
00:28:55.740
Learning that not everything is yours
link |
00:28:58.060
and that the entire world is not about you
link |
00:29:00.140
is one of the key contingencies
link |
00:29:01.960
that is established during play.
link |
00:29:04.620
It's one of the key ways in which children go
link |
00:29:07.180
from being very self-centered
link |
00:29:08.980
and basically unable to engage with other kids for very long
link |
00:29:12.140
without some sort of eruption of crying
link |
00:29:14.040
and some sort of battle of kind of push-pull over an object
link |
00:29:18.260
to things like sharing and things like cooperative play.
link |
00:29:21.520
So as we transition from forms of play
link |
00:29:23.680
that are all about the self,
link |
00:29:25.100
that are all me, me, me, me, me, The Toddler's Creed,
link |
00:29:27.800
to forms of play that involve some discomfort
link |
00:29:31.220
in assuming roles that maybe we don't want
link |
00:29:33.260
and not getting what we want,
link |
00:29:35.420
it's really an opportunity for the brain
link |
00:29:37.940
to start to explore different roles that people take,
link |
00:29:41.340
how they work as individuals and as pairs
link |
00:29:43.620
and in larger groups.
link |
00:29:45.300
And to do that in a low stakes environment, right?
link |
00:29:49.260
You wouldn't want this to be worked out on the battlefield
link |
00:29:52.340
or when searching for food
link |
00:29:53.860
or in some high stakes environment
link |
00:29:55.840
where the survival of the species was important.
link |
00:29:59.120
It appears that these circuitries for play evolved
link |
00:30:01.880
so that rules and contingencies around who's most important,
link |
00:30:06.420
whether or not the group is important,
link |
00:30:07.780
whether or not individuals are going to be leaders
link |
00:30:09.840
or followers, et cetera,
link |
00:30:11.220
that can be explored in a low stakes environment.
link |
00:30:13.700
Now, there are hundreds of different types of play
link |
00:30:15.820
and hundreds of different types of contingency testing,
link |
00:30:18.580
but the key theme here is that play allows children
link |
00:30:23.380
and adults for that matter to explore different outcomes
link |
00:30:26.780
in a kind of low stakes environment.
link |
00:30:28.540
If you're playing a board game or a card game,
link |
00:30:30.700
you might get really into that game,
link |
00:30:32.340
but unless there's a lot of money on the table, so to speak,
link |
00:30:34.540
or you're really playing for something important,
link |
00:30:36.620
or unless your ego is swollen
link |
00:30:38.100
way out of proportion to reality,
link |
00:30:40.180
if you lose, you might not feel good about it,
link |
00:30:42.420
but it's truly not the end of the world.
link |
00:30:44.040
And if you win, you might feel really good about it,
link |
00:30:46.420
but you're not really incredible.
link |
00:30:48.200
You were just incredible in that particular situation
link |
00:30:51.060
for that particular moment.
link |
00:30:52.200
It doesn't really transform the rest of your life
link |
00:30:54.840
unless that game is of a particular type,
link |
00:30:56.860
for sport, for instance, and we'll talk about sport later.
link |
00:31:00.500
So the key theme here is that play is contingency testing.
link |
00:31:04.700
Play is contingency testing under conditions
link |
00:31:07.540
where the stakes are sufficiently low
link |
00:31:10.420
that individuals should feel comfortable
link |
00:31:12.500
assuming different roles,
link |
00:31:13.620
even roles that they're not entirely comfortable with
link |
00:31:16.820
in their outside life.
link |
00:31:18.540
And that all relates again
link |
00:31:20.140
to the release of these endogenous opioids
link |
00:31:22.380
in this brain center, periaqueductal gray,
link |
00:31:24.460
and the way that it allows the prefrontal cortex
link |
00:31:26.940
in a very direct way.
link |
00:31:27.780
I mean, truly, it allows it in a biological way
link |
00:31:30.700
to expand the number of operations that it can run
link |
00:31:34.580
and start thinking about, oh, well, okay,
link |
00:31:37.500
normally I'm kind of a loner and I like to read and work
link |
00:31:40.900
and hang out alone, maybe even play alone,
link |
00:31:43.100
but, oh, okay, I'll play a board game or a game of tennis
link |
00:31:46.220
where I have a partner and we're going to play as partners
link |
00:31:47.940
against two other people.
link |
00:31:49.040
Okay, that's a little uncomfortable, but I'll do it.
link |
00:31:51.780
And in doing that, you discover certain ways
link |
00:31:53.980
in which you are proficient
link |
00:31:55.220
and certain ways in which you are less proficient.
link |
00:31:57.540
You discover that the other person
link |
00:31:59.060
actually tends to cheat a little bit
link |
00:32:01.980
or the other person is extremely rigid about the rules
link |
00:32:05.100
or maybe it is extremely rigid
link |
00:32:06.600
about the way they organize their pieces on the board
link |
00:32:09.100
or you're crossing the line
link |
00:32:10.240
into your side of the tennis court.
link |
00:32:11.720
There are all sorts of things that we learn
link |
00:32:13.500
in these rather low stakes scenarios.
link |
00:32:15.660
That's the key theme here.
link |
00:32:17.300
So before I continue, I just want to point to a tool
link |
00:32:20.540
that anyone can use,
link |
00:32:21.620
but in particular, the less playful of the group.
link |
00:32:24.820
And I would put myself into this category.
link |
00:32:27.360
Yeah, and I'm not somebody
link |
00:32:28.220
who really engages in spontaneous play.
link |
00:32:31.380
I enjoy sports, I enjoy exercise,
link |
00:32:33.580
but that is distinct from play
link |
00:32:34.960
because the sports and exercise that I engage in,
link |
00:32:37.020
I take pretty seriously.
link |
00:32:38.100
They're not low stakes for me.
link |
00:32:40.260
Actually, I put a lot of importance on them.
link |
00:32:41.940
Actually, as I'm saying all this,
link |
00:32:42.780
I probably should put a little less importance on them
link |
00:32:44.500
and have a little more fun with those.
link |
00:32:46.220
And yet, what I'm about to tell you is that anyone
link |
00:32:50.820
and everyone can benefit from engaging
link |
00:32:53.340
in a bit more of this playful mindset.
link |
00:32:56.500
The playful mindset is not necessarily about smiling
link |
00:32:59.300
and jumping around or being silly.
link |
00:33:01.900
That's not it at all.
link |
00:33:02.740
It's not the Tigger character from Winnie the Pooh,
link |
00:33:05.380
necessarily, it could be,
link |
00:33:07.340
but it's really about allowing yourself
link |
00:33:10.880
to expand the number of outcomes
link |
00:33:14.060
that you're willing to entertain
link |
00:33:15.420
and to think about how you relate
link |
00:33:16.540
to those different outcomes.
link |
00:33:17.920
So what this means is putting yourself into scenarios
link |
00:33:20.660
where you might not be the top performer, right?
link |
00:33:23.980
Playing a game that you're not really that good at.
link |
00:33:26.100
I had this experience recently,
link |
00:33:27.940
friends that like to play cards,
link |
00:33:29.180
they like to do some low stakes gambling.
link |
00:33:30.940
This is not an illegal gambling ring,
link |
00:33:32.380
they play for trivial things.
link |
00:33:34.180
And I generally don't buy into the game.
link |
00:33:38.180
I generally don't play,
link |
00:33:39.580
mostly because they end up winning
link |
00:33:41.200
and taking whatever it is that I have.
link |
00:33:43.660
But in the mode of assuming a more playful spirit,
link |
00:33:47.180
the idea would be,
link |
00:33:48.020
well, if the stakes are low enough,
link |
00:33:50.480
then to play simply for the sake of playing,
link |
00:33:52.780
because there's something to learn there
link |
00:33:54.260
about the other people in the group and about oneself
link |
00:33:57.260
and how one reacts to things like
link |
00:34:00.180
someone who's clearly trying to take everybody's money
link |
00:34:03.420
or somebody who is clearly trying to cheat
link |
00:34:07.840
or somebody who's clearly very, very rigid
link |
00:34:10.460
about every last detail,
link |
00:34:11.700
including how the cards are dealt and shuffled, right?
link |
00:34:14.520
There is learning in this exploration.
link |
00:34:16.820
And that is at a biological level,
link |
00:34:19.620
the prefrontal cortex
link |
00:34:20.820
starting to entertain different possibilities,
link |
00:34:23.380
starting to entertain different outcomes
link |
00:34:25.020
in this low stakes way.
link |
00:34:26.260
And if you think about it,
link |
00:34:27.660
that's not something that we allow ourselves
link |
00:34:29.840
to do very often.
link |
00:34:31.720
Even if we listen to new forms of music
link |
00:34:33.660
or we go see new art or new movies,
link |
00:34:36.300
those are new experiences,
link |
00:34:37.500
but that's not us making new predictions
link |
00:34:39.820
about what's going to happen next.
link |
00:34:41.220
It's not the brain working to figure out new possibilities.
link |
00:34:45.020
And so you can immediately see how
link |
00:34:46.740
just a small increase in your willingness
link |
00:34:50.020
to put yourself into conditions
link |
00:34:51.580
where you don't understand all the rules, perhaps,
link |
00:34:53.460
or you're not super proficient at something,
link |
00:34:56.300
but you enter it because it is low stakes.
link |
00:34:59.340
And because there is information
link |
00:35:00.740
to learn about yourself and others
link |
00:35:02.260
could start to open up these prefrontal cortex circuits.
link |
00:35:05.260
And when I say open up,
link |
00:35:06.500
I don't mean that literally
link |
00:35:07.660
there's an opening in your skull.
link |
00:35:08.780
What I mean is that your prefrontal cortex
link |
00:35:11.980
can work in very rigid ways.
link |
00:35:13.520
Meaning if A, then B.
link |
00:35:15.060
If I go down this street,
link |
00:35:16.180
turn left and go that way to work, it is fast.
link |
00:35:18.620
If I go down the other street, it's slow.
link |
00:35:20.100
If there's a traffic jam there, I'm going to go there,
link |
00:35:22.320
but it's starting to explore different possibilities.
link |
00:35:24.600
And there are very, very few opportunities in life
link |
00:35:28.300
to explore contingencies in this low stakes way,
link |
00:35:31.280
such that it engages neuroplasticity
link |
00:35:33.260
of the prefrontal cortex.
link |
00:35:34.740
So play is powerful at making your prefrontal cortex
link |
00:35:38.900
more plastic, more able to change in response to experience,
link |
00:35:42.240
but not just during the period of play,
link |
00:35:45.020
but in all scenarios,
link |
00:35:46.360
because you get one prefrontal cortex.
link |
00:35:47.860
You don't get a prefrontal cortex just for play.
link |
00:35:50.100
You get a prefrontal cortex that engages in everything.
link |
00:35:53.300
So going forward,
link |
00:35:54.140
I will layer on some more concrete aspects of tools.
link |
00:35:58.180
But for now,
link |
00:35:59.000
if you're somebody that doesn't consider yourself
link |
00:36:00.500
particularly playful, consider,
link |
00:36:02.500
and maybe even engage in just a little bit of play
link |
00:36:05.820
in some way that is of discomfort to you
link |
00:36:08.780
with the understanding
link |
00:36:09.860
that is increasing your prefrontal cortical plasticity.
link |
00:36:13.500
Another really interesting and important aspect of play
link |
00:36:16.960
is so-called play postures.
link |
00:36:19.180
These are seen in animals and these are seen in humans.
link |
00:36:22.220
And for those of you that are watching this podcast
link |
00:36:24.440
on YouTube, I'll do my best to adopt them here.
link |
00:36:27.400
For those of you that are listening,
link |
00:36:28.380
you'll just have to imagine them in your mind's eye.
link |
00:36:31.120
But Jaak Pangsepp and indeed Darwin himself
link |
00:36:35.020
studied these play postures that all animals engage in.
link |
00:36:39.580
Perhaps the most familiar one is seen in dogs and in wolves
link |
00:36:44.320
where they will lower their head to the ground
link |
00:36:46.380
and they'll put their paws out in front of them
link |
00:36:47.960
and they will make eye contact
link |
00:36:49.780
with another typically dog or wolf
link |
00:36:53.040
to so-called call the play.
link |
00:36:55.340
Now, when they do this posture,
link |
00:36:57.300
it's obvious that they're lowering themselves.
link |
00:36:59.040
They're not in an aggressive stance
link |
00:37:01.620
because they're lowering their head.
link |
00:37:03.220
And this is universally known among canines as play posture.
link |
00:37:07.140
There's some famous videos online.
link |
00:37:08.400
You can look these up of dogs actually doing this with bears
link |
00:37:11.980
that they're confronted with.
link |
00:37:13.300
And the bears, at least in these videos,
link |
00:37:16.520
in exchange also lowering their head
link |
00:37:18.700
and there you see bear dog playful interactions.
link |
00:37:22.860
Now, you always have to be cautious with bears in general.
link |
00:37:25.780
I would say you have to be cautious with bears.
link |
00:37:27.780
But this speaks to the universality of this bowing,
link |
00:37:31.980
this sort of what some people call the puppy bow
link |
00:37:34.140
or the play bow that dogs do.
link |
00:37:36.100
It turns out that humans do this as well,
link |
00:37:37.900
although in a different form,
link |
00:37:39.180
I'm sure there are some that go
link |
00:37:40.180
into the down dog play posture,
link |
00:37:42.100
but more typically when humans want to play,
link |
00:37:45.180
they will do a subtle or not so subtle head tilt.
link |
00:37:48.900
The head tilt with eyes open is considered
link |
00:37:51.460
the universal head and facial expression posture
link |
00:37:54.660
of play in humans.
link |
00:37:55.960
So when two people see one another,
link |
00:37:57.660
if they are aggressive towards one another,
link |
00:38:00.380
they will assume certain facial expressions and postures.
link |
00:38:03.020
But if they're feeling playful towards one another,
link |
00:38:04.860
oftentimes they'll tip their head to the side
link |
00:38:06.460
just a little bit and they'll open their eyes.
link |
00:38:08.200
They might even raise their eyebrows briefly.
link |
00:38:10.480
This has been seen again and again and again.
link |
00:38:12.680
Another hardwired feature of so-called play postures
link |
00:38:16.580
is what's called soft eyes.
link |
00:38:18.660
When animals are aggressive or when they're sad,
link |
00:38:22.060
they tend to reduce the size of their eye openings
link |
00:38:24.860
by basically making their eyelids closer together somewhat,
link |
00:38:28.700
but keeping their eyes together.
link |
00:38:29.660
In particular for aggression,
link |
00:38:30.760
they'll bring their eyes towards
link |
00:38:31.920
what we call a vergence eye movement,
link |
00:38:33.320
bringing it towards the center
link |
00:38:34.460
that actually narrows the aperture of the visual field.
link |
00:38:38.780
When people or animals want to engage in play,
link |
00:38:41.280
they tend to open their eyelids somewhat
link |
00:38:43.620
and they tend to purse their lips just a little bit.
link |
00:38:45.860
So it's not like throwing your lips like this,
link |
00:38:48.060
it's pursing their lips,
link |
00:38:49.220
they'll open their eyes a little bit
link |
00:38:50.260
and they'll often do the head tilt as well,
link |
00:38:51.860
sometimes with a little bit of a smile.
link |
00:38:53.660
These are reflexive, these are not trained up.
link |
00:38:56.140
Children do this, adults do this, dogs, wolves do this,
link |
00:39:00.440
even certain birds will do this.
link |
00:39:02.420
Most birds have eyes on the side of their heads,
link |
00:39:04.060
but they do a sort of form of this soft eyes approach.
link |
00:39:06.660
And certainly in raptors, you see a softening of the eyes
link |
00:39:09.160
and indeed raptors like hawks and eagles,
link |
00:39:11.620
they actually do have a certain form of play,
link |
00:39:13.580
but only early in life.
link |
00:39:15.880
The other thing that we see during play
link |
00:39:17.780
are what are called partial postures.
link |
00:39:19.700
Partial postures are a kind of play enactment
link |
00:39:23.460
of postures that would otherwise be threatening.
link |
00:39:26.140
So a partial posture that we see during play
link |
00:39:29.780
in animals and humans that relates to aggressive play,
link |
00:39:32.900
so things like wrestling or things like rough
link |
00:39:35.220
and tumble play, which is very common in animals
link |
00:39:37.300
and kids and some adults,
link |
00:39:39.540
is that because there's going to be a physical interaction,
link |
00:39:43.480
in animals what will happen is they will march
link |
00:39:46.780
toward one another often very slowly,
link |
00:39:48.660
but rather than having their hair up,
link |
00:39:51.300
which we call pyloerection,
link |
00:39:53.100
which is when the hair goes up,
link |
00:39:54.180
animals do this to make themselves look bigger.
link |
00:39:55.800
Think about the cat that's trying to look bigger
link |
00:39:58.140
or an animal that's being aggressive,
link |
00:39:59.340
trying to look bigger in the presence of a foe,
link |
00:40:04.560
a different animal that they're either going to try
link |
00:40:06.440
and kill or fight in some way,
link |
00:40:08.080
even if it's to defend themselves.
link |
00:40:10.060
Partial postures occur when animals will approach
link |
00:40:12.920
one another, but they'll keep their fur down.
link |
00:40:15.500
Humans will do this too.
link |
00:40:16.980
They were approached during play,
link |
00:40:19.060
but unless it's highly competitive play,
link |
00:40:21.100
like a football game or a boxing match,
link |
00:40:23.840
they will actually shrink their body size somewhat.
link |
00:40:26.340
We have hair on our bodies, some of us more than others,
link |
00:40:30.140
and that hair is capable of pyloerection.
link |
00:40:33.240
It can stand up.
link |
00:40:34.080
That's the hair standing up on end phenomenon,
link |
00:40:36.920
but most of us don't have enough hair on our bodies
link |
00:40:39.600
that we can actually use that to make ourselves larger.
link |
00:40:42.700
So what you see with people who are about to engage in play
link |
00:40:46.040
is they tend to make their body a little bit smaller
link |
00:40:48.660
unless they are highly competitive
link |
00:40:50.580
and highly competitive play is its own distinct form of play
link |
00:40:53.440
that we'll talk about later, such as during sport,
link |
00:40:55.580
when the stakes are high.
link |
00:40:56.940
A Super Bowl football game,
link |
00:40:59.840
I'm revealing my ignorance about sports here.
link |
00:41:01.940
The Super Bowl, as it's typically called,
link |
00:41:04.700
is a very high stakes game, right?
link |
00:41:07.020
Salaries depend on it, sponsorships depend on it,
link |
00:41:09.500
it's on television, reputations depend on it.
link |
00:41:13.340
So that's not really playing a game.
link |
00:41:15.580
That's playing a very high stakes game
link |
00:41:17.540
and there you're not going to see these partial postures.
link |
00:41:20.180
You're not going to see soft eyes and tilting of the head,
link |
00:41:23.060
at least not between the opposing players on the team.
link |
00:41:25.300
You're going to see quite the opposite,
link |
00:41:26.820
grunting, screaming, shouldering, people not blinking,
link |
00:41:30.340
lowering their eyes or rather shrinking their eyes down
link |
00:41:33.940
to appear more aggressive, these kinds of things,
link |
00:41:36.340
staring right through the other person,
link |
00:41:38.260
verbal threats, et cetera.
link |
00:41:39.460
So that's not really play,
link |
00:41:41.100
even though we say they're playing a game of football,
link |
00:41:43.260
it's very high stakes play.
link |
00:41:45.640
What I'm referring to here is when it's fairly low stakes
link |
00:41:48.780
and we see this again in animals and humans.
link |
00:41:50.620
So there are many, many of these partial postures.
link |
00:41:52.460
Again, they happen spontaneously.
link |
00:41:54.660
So if someone ever looks at you
link |
00:41:56.060
and they tilt their head a little bit
link |
00:41:57.300
and they raise their eyebrows
link |
00:41:58.540
and they maybe smile a little bit,
link |
00:41:59.900
they're looking at you playfully.
link |
00:42:01.580
That's the universal human exchange of, I want to play.
link |
00:42:05.820
Do you want to play?
link |
00:42:07.020
There's another play expression
link |
00:42:08.780
that is considered the most extreme of the,
link |
00:42:11.340
come on, let's play expressions and postures.
link |
00:42:13.980
And this is one that's seen in a lot of primates
link |
00:42:15.860
and indeed in some humans as well.
link |
00:42:17.740
And that's the eyes wide open
link |
00:42:19.860
and believe it or not, tongue out.
link |
00:42:21.700
It's that kind of silly thing.
link |
00:42:24.580
That's not, I don't think that I've ever done that before.
link |
00:42:26.860
Just that kind of thing is basically
link |
00:42:30.820
what primate species of all kinds,
link |
00:42:32.700
and indeed we are old world primates as well,
link |
00:42:35.720
do when they want to say, I'm definitely here to play
link |
00:42:39.420
and that's why I'm here.
link |
00:42:40.900
Okay, it has this kind of silly look or connotation,
link |
00:42:43.900
but if you watch chimpanzees
link |
00:42:45.840
or you look at bonobos
link |
00:42:47.780
or even in the so-called new world monkeys,
link |
00:42:49.860
which tend to be the smaller monkeys,
link |
00:42:51.860
old world monkeys tend to be the ones that in general
link |
00:42:55.340
see the world as we do.
link |
00:42:56.680
They have what we call trichromacy.
link |
00:42:58.720
They're the ones that often can look very human-like.
link |
00:43:00.820
The new world monkeys tend to be the little ones.
link |
00:43:02.860
In general, I'll give you a little trick here,
link |
00:43:04.660
a little tool based on primatology.
link |
00:43:07.000
If you see a monkey and it's making very slow movements
link |
00:43:09.980
or you see an ape of any kind
link |
00:43:11.100
it's making very slow movements,
link |
00:43:12.140
very likely to be an old world primate.
link |
00:43:14.740
If you see a monkey and it's making very quick movements,
link |
00:43:19.500
like it's doing this kind of thing,
link |
00:43:20.680
like it's like a, could be a squirrel monkey,
link |
00:43:23.300
could be a marmoset, likely to be a new world monkey.
link |
00:43:25.980
And they don't see the world the same way we do.
link |
00:43:27.900
They see the world more like a dog.
link |
00:43:29.220
They don't really see reds.
link |
00:43:30.260
They see reds as orange, et cetera.
link |
00:43:32.620
Okay, that's not a hard and fast rule
link |
00:43:34.040
and I'm sure the primatologists are going to come after me
link |
00:43:36.780
with whatever primatologists come after you
link |
00:43:38.660
with monkey biscuits or something like that.
link |
00:43:40.220
But in general, it's a good rule if you're at the zoo
link |
00:43:42.260
and you see a slow moving monkey with slow deliberate
link |
00:43:45.620
gestures kind of moves its eyes,
link |
00:43:47.120
makes eye contact every once in a while,
link |
00:43:48.700
those tend to be the old world primates.
link |
00:43:50.060
Those kind of jittery ones that look like
link |
00:43:51.740
they're really nervous, wrapping their tail
link |
00:43:53.060
and kind of hiding there in a little bundle.
link |
00:43:54.780
Those tend to be the new world monkeys.
link |
00:43:56.940
Okay, again, not a black and white type division,
link |
00:44:00.540
but that'll get you most of the way.
link |
00:44:03.960
So the whole purpose of these partial postures
link |
00:44:06.300
or the tongue out thing is to limit power in deliberate ways
link |
00:44:11.300
to really take bodily expressions that could be portrayed
link |
00:44:16.020
or could be interpreted as aggressive
link |
00:44:19.980
or as threatening or as wanting to mate
link |
00:44:23.340
or as wanting to do anything for that matter
link |
00:44:25.980
and to limit the power with which they are expressed
link |
00:44:29.180
in very deliberate ways.
link |
00:44:30.340
So that's the putting the hair down
link |
00:44:32.380
despite getting into a fighting stance.
link |
00:44:34.460
That's saying let's fight,
link |
00:44:35.520
but I'm not really here to fight fight.
link |
00:44:37.180
It's low stakes fighting.
link |
00:44:38.540
Like if I pin you, then I'll let you go.
link |
00:44:40.680
Or if you pin me, then you ought to let me go.
link |
00:44:42.940
And so immediately you can start to see how play
link |
00:44:46.220
starts to call into action social dynamics
link |
00:44:51.000
in which both parties have to make some sort of agreement
link |
00:44:53.980
about how high the stakes are.
link |
00:44:56.300
Now, the failures to do this are also very informative
link |
00:44:59.660
in how we develop in social groups.
link |
00:45:01.780
And this also can inform why some people
link |
00:45:04.220
really play well with others and other people don't.
link |
00:45:06.340
And some people seem to get along well with groups
link |
00:45:08.220
and can handle other people.
link |
00:45:09.200
And some people are very rigid.
link |
00:45:11.700
In fact, I have an anecdote about this.
link |
00:45:13.120
When I was a kid, we used to play this game.
link |
00:45:15.200
It's not a game I suggest,
link |
00:45:16.180
but we used to do what were called dirt-clawed wars.
link |
00:45:18.740
So a friend of mine, his parents were generally not home
link |
00:45:21.680
in the afternoon.
link |
00:45:22.660
So we must've been somewhere around 10 or 11 years old.
link |
00:45:25.540
And we would set up these two big dirt mounds.
link |
00:45:27.700
We would shovel them to big dirt mounds
link |
00:45:29.100
on two sides of the yard.
link |
00:45:30.380
And then we would just take dirt clods
link |
00:45:32.620
and we'd throw them at one another
link |
00:45:33.980
and just have dirt-clawed wars.
link |
00:45:35.180
Again, not suggesting this.
link |
00:45:37.240
I'm not responsible for what happens if you do,
link |
00:45:39.660
but there were rules.
link |
00:45:40.900
And the rules were, for instance,
link |
00:45:43.540
you couldn't pack rocks into the dirt clods
link |
00:45:46.600
and you could run across to the other side
link |
00:45:49.120
and you could jump on the other person's mountain.
link |
00:45:50.500
You could throw dirt clods in there.
link |
00:45:51.660
I guess this is the stuff that we thought was entertaining.
link |
00:45:54.800
But if someone got hit in the head,
link |
00:45:57.460
generally there was an unspoken rule
link |
00:45:59.700
that you kind of stop and see whether or not
link |
00:46:01.620
they were damaged or not before you'd continue.
link |
00:46:03.460
You couldn't continue pelting them.
link |
00:46:04.900
And of course people broke this rule.
link |
00:46:06.260
In fact, I remember one kid, I'm not going to name him
link |
00:46:08.780
because actually he's grown into a very prominent
link |
00:46:11.860
and functional adult, but he got hit once in the head.
link |
00:46:15.100
And then I think someone had thrown a dirt clod
link |
00:46:17.040
shortly thereafter.
link |
00:46:18.400
And all of a sudden he just went into a rage,
link |
00:46:21.020
picking up rocks and sticks and attacking another kid.
link |
00:46:23.940
And so clearly that was a case in which
link |
00:46:26.580
the rules of the game were now being violated,
link |
00:46:29.000
but it served a very important purpose.
link |
00:46:30.660
There was the typical thing that there were some tears,
link |
00:46:33.980
I think, as I recall from one kid or the other,
link |
00:46:35.940
there was like snot coming out of the nose
link |
00:46:37.440
and turning bright red.
link |
00:46:38.660
A kid went home.
link |
00:46:39.580
It was a mess.
link |
00:46:40.420
The parents had to say something,
link |
00:46:41.860
or maybe there was a phone call.
link |
00:46:43.060
I don't quite recall how it got resolved.
link |
00:46:45.060
But the idea is that there's an agreed upon set of rules
link |
00:46:48.860
about how high the stakes are
link |
00:46:50.360
and what we're all going to do.
link |
00:46:51.620
And this is separate from sport
link |
00:46:52.760
where there are clearly defined rules
link |
00:46:54.520
about what's out of bounds, what's in bounds,
link |
00:46:57.080
what sorts of behaviors will get you a yellow card
link |
00:46:58.880
or a red card, for instance, on the soccer field.
link |
00:47:01.260
All animals, including humans,
link |
00:47:03.000
are doing this low stakes contingency testing
link |
00:47:05.860
and all animals, including humans you will find,
link |
00:47:08.380
start to up the stakes.
link |
00:47:10.340
And inevitably in group play,
link |
00:47:12.660
one member of the group will kind of break rules.
link |
00:47:15.320
You see this also in puppies.
link |
00:47:17.340
So for instance, puppies will bite one another
link |
00:47:19.680
with those sharp little needle-like puppy teeth.
link |
00:47:21.700
I remember when Costello had those teeth,
link |
00:47:22.980
those things were so darn sharp.
link |
00:47:24.920
And puppies will yelp
link |
00:47:26.700
when one of their litter mates bites them.
link |
00:47:28.960
That yelp actually serves
link |
00:47:30.420
a very important inhibitory function,
link |
00:47:32.780
this is well-defined,
link |
00:47:33.860
to tell the other one that's too tough.
link |
00:47:35.600
And this is how animals learn soft bite, okay?
link |
00:47:38.460
If they don't get that feedback from other litter mates,
link |
00:47:41.340
they never actually learn what's too hard and what's soft.
link |
00:47:44.580
And so humans do this as well.
link |
00:47:46.620
Now you can look at your adult counterparts,
link |
00:47:48.980
and indeed we should probably look at ourselves and ask,
link |
00:47:51.500
did we learn proper play contingency when we were younger?
link |
00:47:54.220
Do we tend to take things too seriously?
link |
00:47:55.840
Do we tend to overreact aggressively
link |
00:47:59.080
when other people are clearly engaging in playful jabbing
link |
00:48:03.460
or sarcasm or things of that sort?
link |
00:48:05.260
So each of you will have a different experience of this,
link |
00:48:06.980
but the point is that play serves many functions.
link |
00:48:11.220
It's not just about the self,
link |
00:48:12.420
it's also about interactions between multiple people.
link |
00:48:14.740
It's about rule testing and low stakes contingency.
link |
00:48:17.140
Rule breaking also serves an important role
link |
00:48:19.300
as is with the example of the dirt-clawed war,
link |
00:48:22.100
puppies biting other puppies, et cetera.
link |
00:48:24.460
And last but not least,
link |
00:48:26.180
there are different forms of play
link |
00:48:28.420
that help us establish who we will become as adults.
link |
00:48:31.940
One of the more powerful of these is role play.
link |
00:48:34.940
When children and sometimes adults
link |
00:48:38.500
will take on different roles
link |
00:48:40.400
that are distinct from their natural world roles
link |
00:48:43.540
in order to, for instance, establish hierarchies.
link |
00:48:46.620
So someone's going to be the leader
link |
00:48:47.880
and someone's going to be the follower.
link |
00:48:49.120
Someone will be dominant and someone will be submissive.
link |
00:48:51.500
Someone will work alone, other people will work in a group.
link |
00:48:55.640
These kinds of role-playing are, again,
link |
00:48:58.340
ways in which the prefrontal cortex
link |
00:49:00.140
has to expand the number of operations.
link |
00:49:03.180
In neuroscience, we call these algorithms
link |
00:49:04.680
that it has to run in order to make predictions.
link |
00:49:06.480
You have to take in a lot of information
link |
00:49:08.060
about your environment all the time and make predictions.
link |
00:49:11.520
But if you are suddenly cast into a new role,
link |
00:49:14.420
well, then you definitely have to make even more predictions
link |
00:49:17.900
from a different standpoint.
link |
00:49:19.180
So these are very powerful for teaching the brain
link |
00:49:21.420
how to function.
link |
00:49:22.560
I had a sister growing up,
link |
00:49:23.540
I still have a sister, fortunately,
link |
00:49:25.220
and she and her friends largely played
link |
00:49:28.100
with dolls and doll houses in the room next door,
link |
00:49:30.600
and they would take on different roles.
link |
00:49:32.620
In fact, some kids, if they play alone,
link |
00:49:35.060
will start to take on the role of leader
link |
00:49:37.540
by taking on an imaginary or creating an imaginary friend.
link |
00:49:40.920
And my apologies to my sibling, but for a long time,
link |
00:49:44.320
she had an imaginary friend.
link |
00:49:46.220
Eventually, that imaginary friend disappeared.
link |
00:49:48.960
I don't know the science around imaginary friends
link |
00:49:51.100
and what makes them disappear or not
link |
00:49:53.000
at what stage of development,
link |
00:49:54.560
but imaginary friends are pretty common.
link |
00:49:56.300
And that's just another way of being able to
link |
00:49:59.140
boss somebody around if that's your thing
link |
00:50:01.180
or to engage in cooperative play.
link |
00:50:03.940
So we can look at this stage of development
link |
00:50:06.220
we call childhood, and we can look at each stage of it,
link |
00:50:08.720
and we can say, wow,
link |
00:50:09.880
there are all these different dimensions of play
link |
00:50:11.780
that really are about testing out
link |
00:50:14.020
how we feel, comfortable or uncomfortable,
link |
00:50:16.380
how we react, good or bad,
link |
00:50:19.300
how we react with stress or with glee
link |
00:50:22.820
when others behave in certain ways.
link |
00:50:24.900
And so what I'm hoping is coming through
link |
00:50:27.160
is that play is not just about having fun.
link |
00:50:30.040
Play is about testing.
link |
00:50:32.260
It's about experimenting
link |
00:50:33.500
and it's about expanding your brain's capacity.
link |
00:50:36.040
And that's true early in development
link |
00:50:37.380
and it's true throughout the lifespan.
link |
00:50:39.100
So at this point in the discussion,
link |
00:50:40.540
I want to take a step back,
link |
00:50:42.240
look at the biology and neurochemistry of play
link |
00:50:44.780
just a little bit.
link |
00:50:46.180
And in doing that, really define what is effective play.
link |
00:50:49.740
If the goal of play is to explore different contingencies
link |
00:50:52.860
in low stakes environments
link |
00:50:54.700
and to expand the function of our prefrontal cortex
link |
00:50:57.840
so that we can see new possibilities
link |
00:50:59.660
and new ways of being become more flexible,
link |
00:51:02.080
more creative, more effective outside of the games of play
link |
00:51:06.520
or the arenas of play, I should say.
link |
00:51:08.860
Well, then we should be asking,
link |
00:51:11.340
how do I know if I'm playing?
link |
00:51:12.580
How do I know if I'm playing correctly?
link |
00:51:15.460
Turns out there's an answer to that.
link |
00:51:17.340
Earlier, I referred to this brain area,
link |
00:51:19.420
the periaqueductal gray that releases opioids,
link |
00:51:23.100
endogenous opioids into our brain and body
link |
00:51:26.060
and tends to relax us a bit.
link |
00:51:29.380
It actually is what leads to these things
link |
00:51:31.500
like soft eyes and head tilts
link |
00:51:33.140
and puppies making puppy postures and things of that sort
link |
00:51:37.420
and how that opens up the number of different functions
link |
00:51:41.260
or algorithms that the prefrontal cortex can run.
link |
00:51:44.400
But there's another piece of the puzzle,
link |
00:51:45.860
which is for something to genuinely be play and playful
link |
00:51:50.260
and for it to have this effect of expanding our brain
link |
00:51:54.620
and engaging neuroplasticity of really changing our brains
link |
00:51:57.620
so that we can see and engage in more possible behaviors
link |
00:52:00.580
and thoughts, et cetera.
link |
00:52:02.140
We also have to have low amounts of adrenaline,
link |
00:52:06.580
so-called epinephrine in our brain and body.
link |
00:52:09.400
Now, the background science for this is quite extensive,
link |
00:52:12.740
but for those of you that are interested
link |
00:52:14.300
in papers and manuscripts,
link |
00:52:16.160
perhaps the best one is a review published in neuroscience
link |
00:52:19.140
and biobehavioral reviews by the very Jak Pengsep,
link |
00:52:22.500
although he has a co-author, which is Steven Siviy, S-I-V-I-Y.
link |
00:52:27.620
I'll provide a link to this in the caption show notes.
link |
00:52:30.460
And the title of this paper is
link |
00:52:32.100
In Search of the Neurobiological Substrates
link |
00:52:34.140
for Social Playfulness in Mammalian Brains.
link |
00:52:37.220
And it's a quite extensive review,
link |
00:52:39.060
but it basically boils down to some key findings
link |
00:52:42.500
whereby any sorts of drugs or behaviors or scenarios
link |
00:52:47.800
that increase levels of adrenaline too much
link |
00:52:51.660
will tend to inhibit play.
link |
00:52:53.860
And drugs and scenarios,
link |
00:52:56.220
and I'm not suggesting recreational drugs here,
link |
00:52:58.140
but these were experiments that were done
link |
00:52:59.980
in the laboratory setting
link |
00:53:01.660
that increase the endogenous opioid output
link |
00:53:05.140
will tend to increase playfulness.
link |
00:53:07.180
And so really the state of mind
link |
00:53:09.900
that one needs to adopt when playing is,
link |
00:53:13.540
first of all, you have to engage in the play,
link |
00:53:16.220
whatever it happens to be,
link |
00:53:17.960
with some degree of focus and seriousness,
link |
00:53:20.620
and focus and seriousness in the neurobiological context
link |
00:53:23.380
generally means epinephrine,
link |
00:53:25.660
being able to focus is largely reliant
link |
00:53:27.740
on things like adrenaline, epinephrine,
link |
00:53:30.220
but also the presence of dopamine,
link |
00:53:32.100
which is a molecule that generates motivation
link |
00:53:34.340
and focus in concert with epinephrine,
link |
00:53:36.820
but also that these endogenous opioids be liberated.
link |
00:53:40.260
And it's really the low stakes feature of play
link |
00:53:42.820
that allows those endogenous opioids to be liberated.
link |
00:53:45.720
What do I mean by that?
link |
00:53:46.560
Well, if you are very, very concerned about the outcome,
link |
00:53:49.260
like you've put a lot of money on the table in a given game,
link |
00:53:53.440
or you're a football player in the Super Bowl,
link |
00:53:56.120
or you're playing a game for which,
link |
00:53:58.420
defeating the other person or your team winning
link |
00:54:01.280
is absolutely crucial to you,
link |
00:54:03.260
well then that's not really going
link |
00:54:04.940
to engage the play circuitry.
link |
00:54:08.540
On the contrary, if you're engaging in those same behaviors
link |
00:54:11.560
or any other behavior in a way
link |
00:54:12.840
that you're simply there to explore,
link |
00:54:15.100
but you don't have high levels of adrenaline in your system,
link |
00:54:17.300
you're not stressed about the potential outcome,
link |
00:54:19.700
well then that constitutes play.
link |
00:54:22.260
Now that's somewhat obvious on the one hand,
link |
00:54:24.500
that you take seriously what you take seriously,
link |
00:54:26.260
and you can be more playful about things
link |
00:54:27.540
that you don't take so seriously,
link |
00:54:29.220
but what is absolutely not obvious
link |
00:54:32.580
is that the state of playfulness
link |
00:54:35.740
is actually what allows you to perform best
link |
00:54:39.220
because the state of playfulness offers you the opportunity
link |
00:54:42.500
to engage in novel types of behaviors and interactions
link |
00:54:45.560
that you would not otherwise be able to access
link |
00:54:48.260
if you are so focused on the outcome, okay?
link |
00:54:51.320
So a state of playfulness is absolutely critical,
link |
00:54:53.900
not just during play,
link |
00:54:55.520
but during competitive scenarios of any kind.
link |
00:54:58.260
I actually started to cultivate a practice related to this
link |
00:55:01.900
when I was in college,
link |
00:55:03.180
I had this general practice
link |
00:55:06.000
of when I wanted to learn something,
link |
00:55:08.280
I would tell myself
link |
00:55:10.080
that it was the most important information in the world
link |
00:55:12.400
and that I was very, very interested in it,
link |
00:55:14.540
and I would kind of lie to myself and say,
link |
00:55:16.240
oh, I'm super interested in, I won't name the topics,
link |
00:55:18.660
but super interested in this or super interested in that,
link |
00:55:20.940
and I could sort of delude myself into being hyper-focused
link |
00:55:24.020
on whatever it is that I was learning
link |
00:55:26.700
in ways that surprised me.
link |
00:55:29.020
However, when we are hyper-focused on something
link |
00:55:33.240
and we are rigidly attached to the outcome,
link |
00:55:35.940
we can't engage in flexible thinking.
link |
00:55:38.420
So it's a great tool to be hyper-focused on something
link |
00:55:41.340
and take it very, very seriously
link |
00:55:43.340
when we're simply trying to learn things
link |
00:55:45.900
by kind of rote memory, learn things and regurgitate,
link |
00:55:48.180
learn and regurgitate of the sort that,
link |
00:55:50.460
frankly, a lot of schooling involves.
link |
00:55:52.800
But if we are trying to get better at something,
link |
00:55:55.420
we sort of hit a wall in athletic performance
link |
00:55:57.480
or in cognitive performance
link |
00:55:58.940
where we're not creative enough,
link |
00:56:00.260
or we're finding, let's just use a sports example,
link |
00:56:02.740
that we only have a certain number of moves
link |
00:56:05.620
that we can deploy
link |
00:56:06.780
or a certain number of swings of the racket
link |
00:56:08.380
that we can deploy.
link |
00:56:09.540
The way to actually expand your practice
link |
00:56:12.280
is to engage in this kind of low stakes thinking.
link |
00:56:15.180
The idea that, well, I'm just going to kind of play
link |
00:56:17.260
and tinker.
link |
00:56:18.180
I'm going to explore in a way that it doesn't really matter
link |
00:56:20.660
if the ball goes back over the net.
link |
00:56:22.140
It doesn't really matter if the ball goes in the hole.
link |
00:56:23.860
And it's counterintuitive because you think,
link |
00:56:25.900
no, the thing that we need to do is drill
link |
00:56:27.900
and drill and drill and drill.
link |
00:56:28.860
And indeed there's a place for that.
link |
00:56:30.540
But this mode of play with modest levels
link |
00:56:34.740
of endogenous opioids being released in our system,
link |
00:56:37.180
plus low levels of adrenaline, epinephrine,
link |
00:56:40.340
low levels of epinephrine and adrenaline
link |
00:56:42.660
are possible only when the stakes are low enough
link |
00:56:45.500
that we're not stressed.
link |
00:56:47.220
Well, that combination really allows the prefrontal cortex
link |
00:56:50.220
to explore different possibilities
link |
00:56:52.180
in ways that can truly expand our capabilities over time.
link |
00:56:55.980
Now, this has been seen again and again,
link |
00:56:57.460
also in the business sector,
link |
00:56:59.660
some of the more challenging,
link |
00:57:02.320
or I should say competitive companies to get jobs at
link |
00:57:04.840
are very interested in hiring people
link |
00:57:06.620
that as children were so-called tinkerers.
link |
00:57:09.020
And actually NASA was first famous for this,
link |
00:57:12.060
that many of the people that achieved great success
link |
00:57:15.180
in engineering at NASA,
link |
00:57:16.740
when they looked back into their childhood histories,
link |
00:57:19.960
those people tended to be tinkerers.
link |
00:57:21.540
They were people that would kind of play with things
link |
00:57:23.340
in a way that wasn't about rigidly following a recipe
link |
00:57:26.820
or an instruction manual.
link |
00:57:28.100
Great cooks discover new forms of food,
link |
00:57:31.580
indeed created entire genres of food
link |
00:57:34.700
by way of being tinkerers.
link |
00:57:36.820
Musicians do this.
link |
00:57:38.820
I grew up playing various sports,
link |
00:57:40.820
but skateboarding was one
link |
00:57:41.800
that I was particularly involved in for a long time.
link |
00:57:44.220
One of the greatest skateboarders of all time is,
link |
00:57:46.820
some of you may recognize his name
link |
00:57:48.080
is the great Rodney Mullen.
link |
00:57:49.660
And Rodney was kind of famous for evolving the sport
link |
00:57:54.140
and continuing to evolve the sport
link |
00:57:55.220
in ways that no one could predict,
link |
00:57:56.580
using skateboards in all sorts of ways
link |
00:57:58.520
that no one had thought of previously.
link |
00:58:00.260
And of course there are other skateboarders
link |
00:58:01.460
that did that as well,
link |
00:58:02.600
but he's particularly well-known for that.
link |
00:58:04.660
And his process is his own.
link |
00:58:06.780
I can't speak to it too much,
link |
00:58:08.540
but he was also known as a kind of a tinkerer
link |
00:58:10.700
as somebody who would spend a lot of time
link |
00:58:12.540
just kind of flipping the board
link |
00:58:13.940
and just flipping it in the air
link |
00:58:15.620
and watching the ways in which it flipped
link |
00:58:17.220
and kind of studying the physics of it really
link |
00:58:19.860
and expanding on his existing understanding
link |
00:58:22.800
of what could happen on a skateboard
link |
00:58:24.760
by way of just playing.
link |
00:58:26.180
Now he took it very seriously,
link |
00:58:27.940
but it's this kind of razor's edge
link |
00:58:30.060
between taking something very seriously,
link |
00:58:31.740
but also tinkering and playing and exploring
link |
00:58:34.180
and just seeing what happens and kind of like,
link |
00:58:35.940
well, let's just see what happens if we did this.
link |
00:58:37.980
That mindset is extremely powerful
link |
00:58:40.740
to export from this thing that we call play
link |
00:58:43.340
into what we could call more serious endeavors
link |
00:58:45.720
of one's occupation or sport,
link |
00:58:47.800
whether or not it's behind a desk
link |
00:58:49.100
or whether or not it's running around on a field
link |
00:58:51.620
or engineering, any endeavor.
link |
00:58:53.700
And so the whole purpose of this episode on play is,
link |
00:58:58.420
yes, on the one hand to illustrate
link |
00:59:00.180
the incredible evolutionary utility of play
link |
00:59:03.500
for setting up the self and relation of the self to others,
link |
00:59:06.840
indeed for setting up cultures entirely
link |
00:59:08.780
because cultures will watch sport together
link |
00:59:10.840
or they'll celebrate their team winning.
link |
00:59:12.580
I mean, World Cup, I've never been a big soccer fan,
link |
00:59:14.920
even though my dad is Argentine, but it's incredible.
link |
00:59:18.100
I mean, the entire world kind of lights up
link |
00:59:20.460
and gets engaged around whether or not their team,
link |
00:59:22.620
their country is going to win.
link |
00:59:23.700
The Olympics also being another example.
link |
00:59:25.780
But play and sport are not quite the same
link |
00:59:28.660
as I've pointed out before.
link |
00:59:29.980
And for all of us who are thinking about tools
link |
00:59:32.000
and things that we can extract from science
link |
00:59:33.600
to enrich our lives, I would say,
link |
00:59:36.060
for those of you that are already playing
link |
00:59:37.620
on a regular basis in one form or another, terrific.
link |
00:59:40.680
Start to expand other forms of play,
link |
00:59:43.000
in particular forms of play
link |
00:59:44.180
that involve new groups of individuals.
link |
00:59:47.060
So if you're somebody that typically plays one-on-one
link |
00:59:49.520
with somebody, try to expand into playing as teams.
link |
00:59:52.020
If you're somebody who only plays alone,
link |
00:59:55.000
then try to expand into playing
link |
00:59:56.980
in perhaps one-on-one first and in groups.
link |
00:59:59.260
This is the way that your brain learns
link |
01:00:01.020
and evolves and changes and gets better.
link |
01:00:03.300
And I raise this because another one
link |
01:00:04.980
of the top 10 questions I get is,
link |
01:00:06.960
how can I keep my brain young?
link |
01:00:08.420
How can I continue to learn?
link |
01:00:09.980
How can I get better in school, in sport, in life,
link |
01:00:13.420
in relationships, et cetera, emotionally, cognitively,
link |
01:00:17.040
and on and on and on.
link |
01:00:18.320
And yes, there are supplements
link |
01:00:20.340
that can support neuroplasticity.
link |
01:00:21.980
Yes, there are brain games and apps
link |
01:00:23.980
that can support neuroplasticity.
link |
01:00:25.780
But if you really want to engage neuroplasticity at any age,
link |
01:00:29.740
what you need to do is return to the same sorts
link |
01:00:31.860
of practices and tools that your nervous system
link |
01:00:35.140
naturally used throughout development
link |
01:00:37.300
and that evolved over hundreds of thousands of years
link |
01:00:39.860
to trigger this thing that we call neuroplasticity.
link |
01:00:42.500
And the reason this is so important is
link |
01:00:44.000
because it starts to move us away
link |
01:00:45.320
from what some people called hacks.
link |
01:00:46.800
I define hacks as using one thing for a different purpose
link |
01:00:49.660
to kind of get a shortcut.
link |
01:00:51.620
I don't really like the term, frankly,
link |
01:00:53.580
and I don't like it because it's not grounded
link |
01:00:57.180
in any biological mechanism.
link |
01:00:59.040
But when we look at play,
link |
01:01:00.260
we can say play is the portal to plasticity.
link |
01:01:03.220
Play at every stage of life
link |
01:01:04.860
is the way in which we learned the rules
link |
01:01:06.660
for that stage of life.
link |
01:01:08.340
And play is the way in which we were able
link |
01:01:10.440
to test how we might function in the real world context.
link |
01:01:14.740
So play is powerful.
link |
01:01:17.560
And we could even say that play
link |
01:01:18.880
is the most powerful portal to plasticity.
link |
01:01:21.460
The reason for that is that yes,
link |
01:01:24.540
this high opioid, low epinephrine or adrenaline state
link |
01:01:29.260
is what opens up play.
link |
01:01:31.220
But then inside of the arena of play,
link |
01:01:33.900
when the prefrontal cortex is running
link |
01:01:35.380
all these different possibilities in this low stakes way,
link |
01:01:38.960
but with some degree of focus,
link |
01:01:41.300
there are a number of other chemicals that are deployed.
link |
01:01:43.960
Things like brain derived and trophic factor
link |
01:01:46.060
and other growth factors that actually trigger
link |
01:01:48.500
the rewiring of brain circuits that allow for it to expand.
link |
01:01:52.700
And indeed, that's what is neuroplasticity.
link |
01:01:55.540
If you're interested in those chemicals
link |
01:01:57.980
and the kind of arena of things that happen
link |
01:02:01.100
when one engages in neuroplasticity,
link |
01:02:03.100
there's a vast literature out there.
link |
01:02:05.020
But one of the more popular books
link |
01:02:07.180
that I think is quite good is from my friend
link |
01:02:09.220
and colleague, John Rady,
link |
01:02:10.300
who's a psychiatrist at Harvard Medical School.
link |
01:02:12.260
That's R-A-T-E-Y.
link |
01:02:13.860
He wrote the book Spark a few years back.
link |
01:02:17.020
And I think it's still very relevant.
link |
01:02:18.500
And John talks about the important role
link |
01:02:21.940
that play exerts in the neuroplasticity process
link |
01:02:25.660
and points to a number of different protocols
link |
01:02:27.340
that one can engage in.
link |
01:02:28.580
He also points to the importance
link |
01:02:29.780
of navigating new environments
link |
01:02:31.800
to not just go on the same hike every week
link |
01:02:33.700
or take the same walk,
link |
01:02:34.640
but actually get into new novel environments.
link |
01:02:36.820
So you're starting to sense a theme here.
link |
01:02:38.140
There's novelty, exploring contingencies,
link |
01:02:40.980
keeping the stakes relatively low, et cetera, et cetera.
link |
01:02:44.140
But these really are the gates to this holy grail
link |
01:02:46.700
that we call neuroplasticity.
link |
01:02:48.560
Neuroplasticity, as I've talked about in the podcast before,
link |
01:02:51.380
is a two-step process.
link |
01:02:52.640
It involves focusing very intensely
link |
01:02:55.360
or at least focusing somewhat on whatever it is
link |
01:02:57.860
that one is trying to learn,
link |
01:02:59.020
and then engaging in deep rest,
link |
01:03:01.620
ideally deep sleep, in the following nights.
link |
01:03:03.940
And I've also talked about the benefits
link |
01:03:05.540
of things like naps and yoga nidra,
link |
01:03:07.300
so-called NSDR, non-sleep deep rest,
link |
01:03:09.840
for enhancing or accelerating plasticity.
link |
01:03:12.540
You can check out the episodes on focus
link |
01:03:15.220
at hubermanlab.com or the episodes on how to learn faster,
link |
01:03:19.260
the detail, all of those.
link |
01:03:20.180
We had a newsletter that lists out all the tools
link |
01:03:24.180
for neuroplasticity, enhancing neuroplasticity.
link |
01:03:26.180
All that is available, zero cost to you
link |
01:03:28.260
at hubermanlab.com, et cetera.
link |
01:03:30.660
You can just download that information.
link |
01:03:33.120
But John's book, that newsletter, those episodes,
link |
01:03:36.520
they really point to this two-step process
link |
01:03:38.220
where it's focus and then rest, focus and then rest.
link |
01:03:41.440
And play is its own unique form of focused and then rest,
link |
01:03:46.180
focus and rest.
link |
01:03:47.020
It's not the same as learning something for sake of school
link |
01:03:49.980
or critically trying to learn a motor behavior
link |
01:03:52.620
for sake of sport.
link |
01:03:53.880
It's really about expanding the number of things
link |
01:03:56.520
that you could learn down the line, okay?
link |
01:03:59.900
So said once again,
link |
01:04:01.300
so I just want to make sure it's abundantly clear,
link |
01:04:03.880
play is about establishing a broader framework
link |
01:04:07.000
within which you can learn new things.
link |
01:04:08.960
It's not about learning some specific thing.
link |
01:04:11.300
It's not about the game you happen to be playing.
link |
01:04:13.900
It's not about the dollhouse that the kids are playing with
link |
01:04:16.600
so that they could become amazing dollhouse players
link |
01:04:18.900
when they grow up, right?
link |
01:04:20.160
The dirt-clawed war that I referred to earlier,
link |
01:04:22.620
for better or for worse,
link |
01:04:24.000
was not about becoming the best dirt-clawed thrower
link |
01:04:27.080
or winning the trophy for dirt-clods in the neighborhood,
link |
01:04:29.240
although we actually had a trophy
link |
01:04:30.580
for the best dirt-clawed team.
link |
01:04:32.720
Alas, it was not my team that year.
link |
01:04:34.960
But the point is that you're learning rules
link |
01:04:37.680
and establishing a broader foundation of practices
link |
01:04:41.080
that then you can learn more things within that context.
link |
01:04:44.800
Thus far, I've tried to convince you
link |
01:04:46.300
through a combination of data and anecdote and explanation
link |
01:04:49.660
that adopting a stance of playfulness
link |
01:04:52.720
and indeed engaging in play on a somewhat regular basis
link |
01:04:56.040
could be beneficial to you,
link |
01:04:57.120
regardless of circumstances or goals.
link |
01:05:01.000
If I haven't done that already,
link |
01:05:02.160
what I'm about to tell you hopefully
link |
01:05:03.840
will push you over the line.
link |
01:05:06.880
It turns out that when you look across
link |
01:05:09.000
the kingdom of all animals,
link |
01:05:11.240
what you find is that animals
link |
01:05:14.400
that engage in playful behaviors
link |
01:05:16.600
for the longest period of time
link |
01:05:19.000
are also the animals
link |
01:05:20.520
that have the greatest degree of neuroplasticity,
link |
01:05:23.960
the brain and nervous system's ability to change
link |
01:05:26.320
in response to experience.
link |
01:05:28.720
Put differently, animals that only play
link |
01:05:30.920
for a very small fraction of their entire life
link |
01:05:34.360
have very rigid brains that don't learn new things,
link |
01:05:37.820
whereas animals that play for a long period
link |
01:05:41.240
throughout their life have very plastic brains.
link |
01:05:44.880
And there's even some evidence that's at this point
link |
01:05:47.960
largely anecdotal, but there's some data starting to emerge
link |
01:05:51.160
that adults that maintain a playful stance
link |
01:05:54.520
that engage in things, again, that are low stakes,
link |
01:05:59.600
contingency exploring, important enough that people focus
link |
01:06:04.960
and that people pay attention to what they're doing,
link |
01:06:06.780
but that they are not filled with adrenaline,
link |
01:06:09.920
freaked out about the outcome being A or B,
link |
01:06:12.680
they're not super, super competitive,
link |
01:06:14.280
maybe just a little bit competitive
link |
01:06:15.640
or not competitive at all.
link |
01:06:17.440
That allows for more ongoing plasticity.
link |
01:06:20.800
And one of the people that comes to mind
link |
01:06:23.240
in thinking about this is, of course, the physicist,
link |
01:06:25.840
and I should say the great physicist, Richard Feynman,
link |
01:06:28.800
Nobel Prize winner, professor at Caltech,
link |
01:06:31.720
was involved in the Manhattan Project,
link |
01:06:33.400
but was also known for being a lifelong tinkerer, right?
link |
01:06:38.120
He also was a mischievous tinkerer.
link |
01:06:40.840
If you read any of the books about Feynman or by Feynman,
link |
01:06:43.920
surely you're joking, Mr. Feynman,
link |
01:06:45.400
or what do you care what other people think?
link |
01:06:47.080
These are wonderful short stories,
link |
01:06:48.300
mostly about Feynman doing things like picking all the locks
link |
01:06:52.600
at the Los Alamos laboratory
link |
01:06:54.900
and putting all the top secret documents
link |
01:06:56.520
out on the floor of the office
link |
01:06:57.880
so that when people came in in the morning,
link |
01:06:59.200
they were all out there.
link |
01:07:00.560
Obviously, they weren't released to the general public.
link |
01:07:03.160
He didn't want to threaten national security.
link |
01:07:05.080
But playing pranks like that, and actually Caltech,
link |
01:07:08.600
I don't know if this is still the case,
link |
01:07:09.800
but Caltech, where he was employed,
link |
01:07:11.160
was always known for doing
link |
01:07:13.120
very technologically challenging pranks.
link |
01:07:16.800
They're not known for their athletic prowess at Caltech.
link |
01:07:19.280
Sorry, Caltech.
link |
01:07:20.480
But they were known, for example,
link |
01:07:23.480
disrupting the scoreboard at the Rose Bowl in Pasadena,
link |
01:07:26.720
for instance, and things of that sort
link |
01:07:28.400
through technological feats that at least at the time
link |
01:07:31.200
required a lot of playfulness and technological prowess.
link |
01:07:35.220
So if you look in science or you look in art
link |
01:07:37.840
or you look in medicine or you look in any domain,
link |
01:07:40.260
what you find is the people that continue
link |
01:07:42.400
to evolve new practices
link |
01:07:44.820
tend to be people that were tinkerers,
link |
01:07:46.960
people that are very creative,
link |
01:07:48.680
tend to be people that are unafraid
link |
01:07:51.200
of exploring things in this low stakes way.
link |
01:07:54.080
They're not so rigidly attached to the outcome
link |
01:07:56.320
that they have to do everything perfectly all the time.
link |
01:07:58.460
Now, they might cloak these playful behaviors
link |
01:08:01.120
so that their final works always look perfect
link |
01:08:03.720
or always look incredible,
link |
01:08:05.060
but they have this kind of playful nature about them.
link |
01:08:06.960
I would venture even to say that the street artist Banksy,
link |
01:08:10.120
for instance, obviously an incredible artist
link |
01:08:12.080
puts a ton of thought and preparation
link |
01:08:14.480
into their work,
link |
01:08:16.740
but there's a kind of playfulness to the whole thing too
link |
01:08:19.880
of using two-dimensional paintings
link |
01:08:22.320
in concert with three-dimensional city dwellings
link |
01:08:24.280
in ways that I think that most people hadn't previously.
link |
01:08:26.920
There were other people like Christo
link |
01:08:28.200
and artists of that sort that did that.
link |
01:08:30.360
But I think Banksy is kind of recognized
link |
01:08:32.840
as the modern rendition of that kind of playfulness
link |
01:08:36.920
using cities in ways that most people don't use cities,
link |
01:08:39.160
using art in ways that most people don't use art,
link |
01:08:42.480
for instance.
link |
01:08:43.720
So to go back to the example of Feynman,
link |
01:08:46.000
Feynman was somebody who learned to paint and draw
link |
01:08:49.200
quite well into his 60s.
link |
01:08:51.160
He was somewhat famous or infamous, I should say,
link |
01:08:53.720
for bongo drumming on the roof of Caltech.
link |
01:08:56.260
I say infamous because he was known also
link |
01:08:59.260
for doing that naked,
link |
01:09:00.460
something that is certainly not in concert
link |
01:09:02.540
with the ethical standards and behaviors
link |
01:09:04.700
of universities today.
link |
01:09:05.960
But Feynman had this playful spirit as a child.
link |
01:09:10.200
He had that playful spirit as a teenager,
link |
01:09:11.860
and he had that playful spirit as an adult.
link |
01:09:14.400
And that's one of the hallmarks of Feynman
link |
01:09:16.800
was that he wasn't just a rigid physicist
link |
01:09:20.000
who could explain things clearly to the general public.
link |
01:09:22.240
He always carried through this playful spirit.
link |
01:09:25.880
And in some of his writings,
link |
01:09:27.240
he pointed to the fact that that playful spirit
link |
01:09:29.160
was something that he worked very hard
link |
01:09:31.080
to continue to cultivate in himself
link |
01:09:34.320
because it was the way in which
link |
01:09:35.800
he could see the world differently
link |
01:09:37.520
and to indeed make great discoveries
link |
01:09:39.880
in the field of physics,
link |
01:09:40.920
but also to kind of evolve his relationship
link |
01:09:43.240
to life more generally.
link |
01:09:44.200
And so he comes to mind as a prominent example
link |
01:09:46.840
of somebody who did this.
link |
01:09:48.660
And if I could achieve anything with this episode,
link |
01:09:51.140
besides teaching you something about the biology of play
link |
01:09:53.800
would be to teach you about the utility of play.
link |
01:09:56.520
Again, I don't consider myself
link |
01:09:58.140
a particularly playful person by nature,
link |
01:10:00.880
but I've tried over the years to adopt
link |
01:10:03.080
this stance of exploring things
link |
01:10:04.680
that are very focused on contingencies of different kinds,
link |
01:10:09.240
but keep the stakes low enough that I can have some fun
link |
01:10:11.720
doing them.
link |
01:10:12.560
And I like to think that it's benefited me somewhat.
link |
01:10:14.960
Now I'd like to drill a little bit further
link |
01:10:16.400
into this thing that we call neuroplasticity.
link |
01:10:19.000
Again, neuroplasticity is the brain and nervous systems
link |
01:10:21.960
ability to change in response to experience.
link |
01:10:24.360
And I should just say that throughout the entire lifespan,
link |
01:10:27.400
the nervous system can change very quickly
link |
01:10:29.440
in response to negative experiences.
link |
01:10:31.900
We can almost all engage in what's called
link |
01:10:33.920
one trial learning where if something really terrible
link |
01:10:36.280
or traumatic happens to us,
link |
01:10:37.860
our nervous system will rewire almost immediately,
link |
01:10:40.880
at least within a few days,
link |
01:10:42.440
such that we tend to want to avoid the experience
link |
01:10:45.160
that led to that trauma.
link |
01:10:47.560
Now the whole business of why people return to things
link |
01:10:50.420
that are traumatic to them is a whole other issue.
link |
01:10:52.480
There are books about things like trauma bonding.
link |
01:10:55.600
There's the so-called repetition compulsion
link |
01:10:58.380
from psychoanalysis that people go back into trauma
link |
01:11:00.840
to retest and gain new opportunities to overcome the trauma,
link |
01:11:04.160
et cetera, et cetera.
link |
01:11:05.000
But in general, what I'm referring to here is,
link |
01:11:06.960
you know, you have a bad experience at the swimming pool
link |
01:11:09.160
when you're a kid where someone holds your head
link |
01:11:10.520
under water too long,
link |
01:11:11.360
and then you just don't want to get back in the water.
link |
01:11:13.020
That's one trial learning of sorts.
link |
01:11:15.660
That of course can be overcome
link |
01:11:17.460
through proper exposure therapy
link |
01:11:19.520
or someone that you trust taking you there,
link |
01:11:21.640
or any number of behaviors that allow you to overcome
link |
01:11:24.960
that particular scenario and experience something new
link |
01:11:27.860
in that same context.
link |
01:11:29.900
But across the lifespan, the learning of new things,
link |
01:11:33.560
new contingencies, new possibilities,
link |
01:11:35.820
occurs very differently from about age zero
link |
01:11:39.820
when we're born until about age 25 and thereafter.
link |
01:11:42.980
So from about, I want to emphasize approximately
link |
01:11:46.300
age 25 onward, neuroplasticity occurs through the process
link |
01:11:50.660
that is exactly as I described before.
link |
01:11:53.100
Focus, rest, focus, rest.
link |
01:11:55.440
We focus very intensely.
link |
01:11:56.780
We can't do the thing.
link |
01:11:57.800
We can't do the new movement.
link |
01:11:58.980
We can't do the golf swing.
link |
01:12:00.180
We can't learn the math.
link |
01:12:02.180
We try, we try, we try, we try.
link |
01:12:03.620
We sleep a few nights and then all of a sudden we can do it.
link |
01:12:06.020
Because the rewiring actually occurs during deep rest
link |
01:12:08.540
or naps, but mostly during deep sleep.
link |
01:12:12.400
From birth till about age 25, however,
link |
01:12:15.300
we can learn things, new things and new contingencies,
link |
01:12:19.740
not just negative things and traumatic things
link |
01:12:22.940
through somewhat passive exposure to those things.
link |
01:12:25.500
I will never forget the first time
link |
01:12:27.460
that we went on a family trip to Washington DC
link |
01:12:30.900
and we went to the Smithsonian.
link |
01:12:32.120
I got to see the old fighter planes.
link |
01:12:34.020
And I think, I think the Kitty Hawk
link |
01:12:36.460
or the first one of the first planes was there.
link |
01:12:38.400
Anyway, obviously my recollection isn't terrific.
link |
01:12:40.700
My hippocampus is flailing on that one,
link |
01:12:43.500
but I'll never forget the trip.
link |
01:12:44.780
And I'll never forget who went.
link |
01:12:45.940
And I think it was probably eight or nine years old.
link |
01:12:48.660
It's embedded somewhere in my memory.
link |
01:12:50.540
And so just through passive experience
link |
01:12:53.020
and my focusing on the things that excited me
link |
01:12:55.420
about that trip, I have a recollection of that experience.
link |
01:12:58.220
I didn't have to deliberately focus.
link |
01:13:00.380
I wasn't telling myself, focus,
link |
01:13:01.940
you're going to need to remember this trip someday,
link |
01:13:03.540
Andrew, you're going to be podcasting about this,
link |
01:13:05.060
you know, in 39 years or whenever.
link |
01:13:07.900
Again, I forget exactly how old I was.
link |
01:13:09.560
But the key feature here is that the developing brain
link |
01:13:13.840
is able to learn through passive experience
link |
01:13:17.780
because the neurons, the nerve cells in the developing brain
link |
01:13:21.840
are much more over-connected
link |
01:13:25.740
than they will be later in life.
link |
01:13:27.740
The way to think about this is sort of,
link |
01:13:28.980
if you use Google maps as I do too often,
link |
01:13:31.980
I think when I drive,
link |
01:13:34.780
there are a number of roads and pathways
link |
01:13:36.500
that would get you from point A to point B.
link |
01:13:38.400
We could imagine those as neural circuits,
link |
01:13:41.500
or we can imagine neural circuits as those roads.
link |
01:13:45.240
Early in development,
link |
01:13:46.880
the nerve connections are much more extensive.
link |
01:13:49.740
It's like having a Google maps
link |
01:13:52.020
that where everything is connected to everything
link |
01:13:53.940
through tiny little cross streets.
link |
01:13:55.220
And the whole thing is just a complete mess.
link |
01:13:57.540
But then by taking particular routes of behavior,
link |
01:14:00.440
of thought, of emotion,
link |
01:14:02.940
certain routes become well-established
link |
01:14:06.220
and the other routes that are not taken simply disappear.
link |
01:14:10.260
Now in the biological context, in the brain,
link |
01:14:12.680
we call that process pruning.
link |
01:14:14.760
And the simple way to envision this is early in development,
link |
01:14:17.360
you have many, many more neurons
link |
01:14:19.360
than you will have as an adult.
link |
01:14:21.420
Those neurons are extensively interconnected
link |
01:14:24.100
and approximately 40% of those interconnections
link |
01:14:27.460
will disappear by time you're 25 years old.
link |
01:14:30.020
They are gone.
link |
01:14:31.180
They are actively removed through processes
link |
01:14:33.860
that involve things like glial cells that come in
link |
01:14:36.500
and literally sneak their little processes
link |
01:14:39.100
in between neurons at the synapse,
link |
01:14:41.300
which are the points of contact
link |
01:14:42.460
and communication between neurons,
link |
01:14:43.620
and push those apart, even eat neurons.
link |
01:14:47.300
There's some incredible work from, for instance,
link |
01:14:49.300
Beth Stevens' lab at Harvard Medical School
link |
01:14:52.380
showing that glial cells go in and eat synapses
link |
01:14:56.700
that are not functional for that particular circuit.
link |
01:15:00.340
Now, what this tells us
link |
01:15:02.380
is that much of our learning during development
link |
01:15:04.540
is the removal of incorrect connections,
link |
01:15:07.180
but it also involves the strengthening of connections
link |
01:15:09.840
that are going to serve certain emotions, certain functions,
link |
01:15:13.620
motor functions, cognitive functions, et cetera.
link |
01:15:17.740
The process of play is largely a process
link |
01:15:22.240
of engaging pruning of neural connections
link |
01:15:25.100
and strengthening of the remaining connections.
link |
01:15:27.980
I'm sure that many of you have heard the term
link |
01:15:29.500
fire together, wire together.
link |
01:15:31.700
That phrase is often incorrectly attributed
link |
01:15:35.420
to the great Donald Hebb, who indeed was great,
link |
01:15:37.740
did incredible work, a psychologist from Canada
link |
01:15:40.060
who established a lot of the basic cellular learning rules
link |
01:15:42.780
for learning and memory,
link |
01:15:44.340
but it was the also great Dr. Carla Schatz
link |
01:15:48.180
who is now at Stanford
link |
01:15:49.740
and was at Berkeley and Harvard as well,
link |
01:15:52.600
but who is at Stanford Medical School
link |
01:15:54.860
who coined this term fire together, wire together.
link |
01:15:57.160
Indeed, that's what happens.
link |
01:15:58.980
When children play, when adolescents play,
link |
01:16:02.740
and when young adults play,
link |
01:16:04.620
whether or not it's social play or play with an object,
link |
01:16:07.900
whether or not it's a sport or play of any kind,
link |
01:16:10.780
imaginary play, imaginary friend play,
link |
01:16:14.080
there is a strengthening of certain neural connections
link |
01:16:16.460
and a pruning away of up to 40%,
link |
01:16:19.220
perhaps even more of connections
link |
01:16:21.460
that are not necessary for certain types of behaviors,
link |
01:16:26.420
emotions, and thoughts.
link |
01:16:28.180
What this means is that it is through the process of play
link |
01:16:32.320
that we become who we are as adults.
link |
01:16:34.740
And as I mentioned earlier,
link |
01:16:35.820
it is through the process of play
link |
01:16:37.740
that we are able to adjust who we are as adults.
link |
01:16:41.600
Now, there are bounds on this process.
link |
01:16:44.340
As far as I know,
link |
01:16:45.220
there's never been a reported case of an individual
link |
01:16:48.500
who had a hyperplastic or a brain
link |
01:16:52.700
that was as plastic in adulthood as it was in childhood.
link |
01:16:57.500
But what this tells us is that what we do
link |
01:17:01.340
in the process of play as children
link |
01:17:03.540
is really how we set up the rules
link |
01:17:05.000
for how we behave as adults in almost all domains,
link |
01:17:08.120
which is really incredible.
link |
01:17:09.480
And of course, the reassuring thing is that
link |
01:17:11.220
playing as an adult will allow you to expand
link |
01:17:14.180
on those neural circuits.
link |
01:17:15.060
You can literally grow new connections.
link |
01:17:16.960
Some of you may be saying, does it create new neurons?
link |
01:17:20.500
For better or for worse,
link |
01:17:21.720
it does not seem that many new neurons
link |
01:17:24.420
are added to your brain in adulthood.
link |
01:17:26.300
There are some papers that report a few neurons
link |
01:17:28.940
in certain brain areas, isolated brain areas,
link |
01:17:31.540
but by and large,
link |
01:17:32.360
most of the rewiring of neural connections
link |
01:17:34.060
is the removal of certain connections,
link |
01:17:35.980
this process we're calling pruning,
link |
01:17:37.660
and the strengthening of the remaining connections
link |
01:17:40.460
that make those kind of Google Maps roads
link |
01:17:42.300
in the analogy I laid out before,
link |
01:17:43.840
thicker and more robust.
link |
01:17:45.100
Think of that as taking little trails
link |
01:17:47.140
and turning them into roads, then paving those roads,
link |
01:17:50.380
then turning those roads into highways,
link |
01:17:51.960
then putting up more lanes on those highways
link |
01:17:54.700
and eliminating all the small little back country roads
link |
01:17:57.280
that one could take.
link |
01:17:58.660
And again, this is an analogy for what is happening
link |
01:18:01.160
at the level of neural circuitry.
link |
01:18:02.980
Now, one of the key findings
link |
01:18:05.540
that has emerged from the literature
link |
01:18:08.180
is that children that have been subjected to trauma
link |
01:18:13.180
or immense amounts of stress of any kind
link |
01:18:17.020
have a harder time both engaging in play,
link |
01:18:19.660
but also a harder time accessing neuroplasticity
link |
01:18:22.260
later in life.
link |
01:18:23.700
The good news is this is not a permanent effect.
link |
01:18:26.220
And we'll talk about some of the ways to overcome that
link |
01:18:28.700
in a moment, but this should make sense to you
link |
01:18:32.060
because earlier we talked about how
link |
01:18:35.420
a high level of adrenaline, epinephrine
link |
01:18:37.780
in the brain and body actually inhibits,
link |
01:18:40.460
blocks the circuits in the brain and body
link |
01:18:43.180
that generate play behavior.
link |
01:18:45.380
And when I say that, I mean that in a very concrete way
link |
01:18:47.900
that epinephrine and adrenaline
link |
01:18:49.940
can actually suppress the sorts of circuitry
link |
01:18:52.640
that can lead to things like soft eyes or tongue out
link |
01:18:56.320
or the head tilt, or what we called partial postures
link |
01:19:00.460
of being able to engage in a rough and tumble play,
link |
01:19:04.460
but not take that to the point of outright aggression
link |
01:19:06.840
and damaging the other person or them damaging you.
link |
01:19:10.180
So when I say that trauma and stress
link |
01:19:13.120
can inhibit neuroplasticity by way of inhibiting play
link |
01:19:17.660
at a deeper neurobiological level,
link |
01:19:19.540
what I'm really saying is that the high levels
link |
01:19:21.540
of adrenaline that are generated from trauma and stress
link |
01:19:24.420
actually shut down the circuits that allow a child
link |
01:19:28.500
or a young adult to enter the game of play
link |
01:19:30.880
or engage in the game of play in the same way
link |
01:19:33.580
that a child or young adult who didn't have high levels
link |
01:19:36.860
of adrenaline in their system could possibly engage in.
link |
01:19:41.020
Now, the good news is that many
link |
01:19:43.220
of the existing trauma therapies that are out there now,
link |
01:19:45.500
including things like EMDR, exposure therapy,
link |
01:19:48.260
cognitive behavioral therapy, and on and on,
link |
01:19:50.580
including some of the therapies that are more neurochemical,
link |
01:19:55.180
things like ketamine or are more engineering-based,
link |
01:19:59.160
things like transcranial magnetic stimulation, for instance,
link |
01:20:02.100
many of those are paired with forms of talk therapy
link |
01:20:05.540
that are really about the same thing that play is about,
link |
01:20:08.380
which is exploring different contingencies.
link |
01:20:10.580
It's about exploring different types
link |
01:20:13.500
of emotional experiences as they relate
link |
01:20:16.260
to the same sort of scenario that created the trauma.
link |
01:20:19.380
And we did an entire episode on fear and trauma,
link |
01:20:21.900
and I recommend you check out that episode.
link |
01:20:23.740
It's easy to find, again, at hubermanlab.com.
link |
01:20:25.860
It's on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, et cetera, et cetera.
link |
01:20:28.080
Very easy to find.
link |
01:20:28.980
And there, I talk all about trauma treatments
link |
01:20:31.380
and the various kinds of trauma treatments
link |
01:20:33.260
that are out there, their efficacy in different scenarios
link |
01:20:36.140
and traumas and so on.
link |
01:20:37.960
But the point I'd like to make now is that the reason
link |
01:20:40.660
why children who experience a lot of trauma and stress
link |
01:20:43.380
have limited plasticity later on
link |
01:20:46.180
is because of the neurochemical substrates
link |
01:20:48.920
that are created from trauma and stress,
link |
01:20:51.400
because after all, stress is epinephrine
link |
01:20:53.660
and epinephrine is stress.
link |
01:20:54.880
Those are inseparable.
link |
01:20:56.660
And the way in which it more or less shuts down
link |
01:20:59.380
or at least inhibits, suppresses those play circuits.
link |
01:21:02.100
And again, the reassuring thing is that by engaging in play
link |
01:21:06.360
as adults, we can reactivate some of those circuits
link |
01:21:09.420
and reopen the plasticity.
link |
01:21:11.140
In fact, one very prominent trauma treatment now,
link |
01:21:14.700
especially for people that have been subjected
link |
01:21:17.220
to very severe traumas in the ongoing sense,
link |
01:21:20.340
meaning traumas that went on for many, many years,
link |
01:21:23.180
is to get them to engage in play, in things like dance,
link |
01:21:27.540
in basically getting them to engage their bodily movements
link |
01:21:30.820
in ways that they would otherwise
link |
01:21:32.620
not feel comfortable to engage in.
link |
01:21:34.500
And I find this area so interesting
link |
01:21:36.620
because on the face of it, you could say,
link |
01:21:38.500
oh, that's kind of, is that really biomedical treatment?
link |
01:21:41.100
You're taking people who are traumatized
link |
01:21:42.260
and having them dance.
link |
01:21:43.420
I mean, it seems kind of silly on the one hand,
link |
01:21:45.440
depending on your particular orientation.
link |
01:21:50.940
But on the other hand, it's actually quite profound
link |
01:21:54.520
and quite grounded in the mechanisms
link |
01:21:57.560
by which the brain circuits change.
link |
01:21:59.420
So again, back to this original principle,
link |
01:22:02.340
which is that play isn't just one portal to plasticity,
link |
01:22:05.660
play is the fundamental portal to plasticity.
link |
01:22:08.820
And that play and dance and exploration of novel movements,
link |
01:22:11.820
exploration of novel athletic movements are the route
link |
01:22:16.400
by which we access new ways of thinking, new contingencies.
link |
01:22:20.900
And I find it wonderful that the trauma release
link |
01:22:24.160
and the psychiatric and psychology community
link |
01:22:27.080
are exploring things like play and dance
link |
01:22:30.940
and other forms of reopening these circuits
link |
01:22:34.260
because indeed we would all love for there to be
link |
01:22:37.820
a magic pill by which trauma could be erased
link |
01:22:40.300
and new memories could be laid down
link |
01:22:41.860
or a device that could do that.
link |
01:22:43.520
But frankly, if you ask me or a number of my colleagues
link |
01:22:46.740
whether or not that's likely to happen anytime soon
link |
01:22:48.740
in an effective way,
link |
01:22:49.900
I think the short answer is going to be no,
link |
01:22:51.880
that there are going to be chemicals
link |
01:22:53.340
and things that can augment and support that process,
link |
01:22:57.220
but that there's not going to be just a magic pill
link |
01:22:59.980
that will suddenly reverse trauma altogether,
link |
01:23:02.040
that it's always going to be a case
link |
01:23:03.880
whereby shifts in neurochemical states
link |
01:23:06.540
are going to have to be combined
link |
01:23:07.760
with new ways of thinking and new behaviors.
link |
01:23:09.820
And I find it wonderful and reassuring
link |
01:23:11.860
that people are looking at play and play behavior
link |
01:23:14.540
as a not just one tiny shard of possibility there,
link |
01:23:18.620
but that it might actually be the main driver
link |
01:23:21.000
and a highly productive lever by which
link |
01:23:23.980
to rewire the traumatized brain.
link |
01:23:25.980
So if you're like me, you might be thinking,
link |
01:23:28.420
okay, I'm willing to be more playful.
link |
01:23:31.220
I'm willing to explore play as a portal to plasticity
link |
01:23:34.940
and that all makes good sense, but what should I play?
link |
01:23:39.260
What should I do?
link |
01:23:40.520
Well, we've already established
link |
01:23:42.980
that you want to keep your adrenaline low.
link |
01:23:44.620
You have to keep the stakes low enough
link |
01:23:46.640
that you're not going to get totally consumed
link |
01:23:48.560
by the outcome.
link |
01:23:50.060
Now, for some people who are highly competitive,
link |
01:23:52.340
that's going to be challenging.
link |
01:23:53.640
And yet I don't want to make it seem
link |
01:23:55.360
as if you can't be competitive during play.
link |
01:23:57.680
There are many forms of competitive play
link |
01:23:59.940
that because you are a competitive person,
link |
01:24:03.380
allow you to derive great joy from that competitive play.
link |
01:24:07.180
I have a friend who's particularly good at horseshoes.
link |
01:24:10.060
I'm not particularly good at horseshoes,
link |
01:24:11.500
but whenever we play horseshoes,
link |
01:24:12.940
I can tell he's out there to crush me on horseshoes.
link |
01:24:17.540
And it's just one of these things where I can tell
link |
01:24:19.940
he derives great pleasure from crushing me
link |
01:24:22.400
at a game of horseshoes.
link |
01:24:23.980
I can't say because I haven't actually done the microdialysis
link |
01:24:27.140
which is a way of extracting chemistry
link |
01:24:29.380
from the brain in real time,
link |
01:24:31.100
nor have I recorded from his brain or imaged it in a scanner
link |
01:24:34.380
whether or not he has high levels of epinephrine
link |
01:24:36.660
or low levels of epinephrine during those games of horseshoes
link |
01:24:39.020
I suspect is low levels of epinephrine
link |
01:24:40.980
and high levels of dopamine, especially when he wins.
link |
01:24:43.700
And yes, he wins every time.
link |
01:24:45.700
But the point is that you can be competitive during play
link |
01:24:49.300
provided that you were enjoying yourself, okay?
link |
01:24:52.260
You can be competitive
link |
01:24:53.380
provided that you were enjoying yourself.
link |
01:24:56.020
There are particular forms of play
link |
01:24:58.500
that lend themselves best to neuroplasticity.
link |
01:25:01.860
And those particular forms of play, again,
link |
01:25:04.600
are not designed to necessarily just engage the plasticity
link |
01:25:07.820
that allows you to perform that behavior,
link |
01:25:09.980
but rather to expand the number of possibilities
link |
01:25:13.220
for your brain to change in general throughout life.
link |
01:25:16.540
And the two major forms of those
link |
01:25:19.020
for which there's good peer-reviewed research
link |
01:25:21.260
is to engage in novel forms of movement,
link |
01:25:24.660
including different speeds of movement.
link |
01:25:27.140
So let's say, for instance, you're somebody who runs.
link |
01:25:29.900
I happen to like running.
link |
01:25:30.860
I try and run three times a week.
link |
01:25:33.120
And generally when I run, I run forward.
link |
01:25:35.440
I don't run backward, although recently,
link |
01:25:37.040
because I've become very excited
link |
01:25:38.540
about the work of so-called knees over toes guy.
link |
01:25:41.300
His name is Ben Parker,
link |
01:25:42.980
but he goes by knees over toes guy on Instagram.
link |
01:25:45.700
I've never met him,
link |
01:25:46.540
but we've exchanged a few messages back and forth.
link |
01:25:49.120
And some of his practices involve walking backwards
link |
01:25:53.140
or doing sled pulls backwards.
link |
01:25:55.500
I found these to be very beneficial for my back
link |
01:25:57.760
and for my anterior tibialis
link |
01:26:00.260
and some things that have really helped
link |
01:26:01.700
with my posture and so forth.
link |
01:26:03.920
But in general, when I run, I run forward.
link |
01:26:05.540
I don't tend to run backward that much.
link |
01:26:07.300
And I might do that for a few minutes at the end,
link |
01:26:09.100
but not so much throughout the entire run.
link |
01:26:12.580
Running doesn't lend itself to a lot of novel forms
link |
01:26:15.540
of movement, lateral movements.
link |
01:26:17.180
So for you nerds out there,
link |
01:26:18.780
the movement in the sagittal plane or angled movements,
link |
01:26:22.540
but it does appear that things like dance or sports,
link |
01:26:25.740
where you end up generating a lot of dynamic movements,
link |
01:26:29.140
where there's jumping,
link |
01:26:30.100
where there's movement at different angles,
link |
01:26:32.060
where there's ducking, where there's leaping,
link |
01:26:34.340
that basically involve a lot of dynamic movement
link |
01:26:36.920
and aren't just strictly linear.
link |
01:26:39.100
Those seem to open the portals for plasticity.
link |
01:26:42.640
And that's because they mimic a lot of the brain circuitry
link |
01:26:46.420
that is associated with play.
link |
01:26:48.500
And the reason for that is the way
link |
01:26:49.940
in which those dynamic movements
link |
01:26:51.460
and movements of different speeds
link |
01:26:53.340
engage the vestibular system, the balance system.
link |
01:26:55.980
The vestibular system is in the inner ear,
link |
01:26:57.960
relates to the cerebellum, which translate to mini brain.
link |
01:27:00.740
You got a little mini brain in the back of your brain.
link |
01:27:02.580
It brings together visual information in a very direct way.
link |
01:27:06.220
I talked a lot about this in the episode
link |
01:27:08.180
on how to learn faster.
link |
01:27:09.580
So if you want to go in depth on how vestibular
link |
01:27:12.100
and different types of motor movements can open plasticity,
link |
01:27:14.420
I talk a little bit more, I should say a lot more there,
link |
01:27:17.300
but suffice to say that engaging in play
link |
01:27:21.020
that has a lot of dynamic movement
link |
01:27:22.380
or movements of different speeds, things like dance,
link |
01:27:24.540
things like sports, like soccer,
link |
01:27:25.820
where you're moving in different dimensions,
link |
01:27:27.980
that tends to be very conducive
link |
01:27:30.020
to what we would call play-related circuitry,
link |
01:27:32.340
provided you don't take it too seriously.
link |
01:27:34.600
You don't get those high levels of epinephrine.
link |
01:27:36.940
Now, for those of you that are also interested
link |
01:27:39.540
in non-physical or non-athletic forms of play
link |
01:27:43.580
that can really expand plasticity,
link |
01:27:46.060
there's some very interesting research
link |
01:27:47.500
about the game of chess.
link |
01:27:49.260
I don't play the game of chess.
link |
01:27:50.800
I've played a few times.
link |
01:27:51.900
I confess I don't know how to move all the pieces,
link |
01:27:53.900
so I'm not going to try and describe that here,
link |
01:27:55.740
but I've always wanted to learn chess.
link |
01:27:56.980
And I think after reading some of the peer reviewed research
link |
01:27:59.340
about chess and play in neuroplasticity,
link |
01:28:01.400
now I understand why.
link |
01:28:02.880
There's a really nice paper that was published
link |
01:28:05.500
in the International Journal of Research
link |
01:28:07.140
and Education and Science in 2017.
link |
01:28:09.860
And the title of this paper is,
link |
01:28:12.100
is chess just a game or is it a mirror
link |
01:28:14.980
that reflects a child's inner world?
link |
01:28:17.280
That's a very intense title for a biologist like me.
link |
01:28:22.540
But this paper is so interesting
link |
01:28:24.780
because what it really points to is the fact
link |
01:28:26.480
that in a single game, chess,
link |
01:28:29.540
you have, at least as I understand, two players,
link |
01:28:32.460
and those two players are moving pieces on the chess board
link |
01:28:37.120
for which each piece can do different things, right?
link |
01:28:40.400
Can move in different ways under different scenarios,
link |
01:28:42.520
but there are different rules for different pieces.
link |
01:28:44.260
And so each player actually has to assume
link |
01:28:46.580
multiple identities during the same game.
link |
01:28:49.700
And each of those identities has different rules
link |
01:28:52.140
and ways of interacting.
link |
01:28:53.520
So in a way we can think of chess as one game,
link |
01:28:56.340
but actually chess is a kind of a substrate
link |
01:29:00.460
for exploring multiple roles for different characters.
link |
01:29:03.780
And this is quite a bit different than, for instance,
link |
01:29:06.020
video games where somebody has their favorite
link |
01:29:08.420
video game player or they have an avatar
link |
01:29:10.860
and they're always in the same role.
link |
01:29:12.300
It's also quite a bit different
link |
01:29:13.620
for when you engage in any kind of play
link |
01:29:15.460
where you are yourself.
link |
01:29:16.540
You're just being you in that game.
link |
01:29:18.660
And so now I'm highly incentivized to explore chess.
link |
01:29:22.760
You see quotes out there, for instance,
link |
01:29:25.500
things like chess is life or jujitsu is life.
link |
01:29:29.060
I always assumed that that meant
link |
01:29:31.500
that someone's entire life was chess
link |
01:29:33.500
or their entire life was jujitsu, for instance.
link |
01:29:37.020
But in reading over the research about chess in particular,
link |
01:29:40.900
but also certain forms of martial arts,
link |
01:29:42.740
also certain forms of dance,
link |
01:29:44.240
what one finds is that indeed those games are life
link |
01:29:48.500
in the sense that they involve adopting multiple roles
link |
01:29:52.900
and exploring contingencies in a number of different ways.
link |
01:29:55.660
So there are some games that allow you to explore
link |
01:29:58.500
a much vaster landscape of movements or of mental roles
link |
01:30:02.540
or of ways of engaging in strategic movement
link |
01:30:05.580
as is the case with chess.
link |
01:30:07.300
And so when you hear that activity blank is life,
link |
01:30:11.460
it often reflects the passion for that activity,
link |
01:30:14.020
but I think looked at differently,
link |
01:30:15.500
it also reflects the fact that that activity
link |
01:30:18.620
is a portal through which you can explore life
link |
01:30:21.460
through many, many different lenses.
link |
01:30:24.140
And I think that that's especially powerful
link |
01:30:26.820
in terms of thinking about how play can be leveraged
link |
01:30:28.940
for plasticity.
link |
01:30:29.940
So for those of you that are interested in leveraging play
link |
01:30:32.960
for neuroplasticity and expanding your mind, if you will,
link |
01:30:37.700
I highly recommend picking an activity
link |
01:30:40.180
that will allow you to adopt different roles
link |
01:30:42.800
within that activity, where it's not rigidly linear.
link |
01:30:45.640
This is actually a way in which I start to depart
link |
01:30:49.080
from this modern and important, but somewhat narrow idea
link |
01:30:53.820
that exercise is the only route to plasticity.
link |
01:30:57.420
Yes, it's true.
link |
01:30:58.380
I have Nobel prize-winning colleagues that swim
link |
01:31:01.660
for two miles a day and have done that for a long time.
link |
01:31:04.020
And they will tell you, I always think more clearly
link |
01:31:06.020
after my swimming and I certainly in my experience,
link |
01:31:09.660
after a good run or a good workout,
link |
01:31:11.240
my mind seems to work best,
link |
01:31:13.600
unless of course that workout was very, very intense.
link |
01:31:15.780
I've talked about this before.
link |
01:31:16.820
If you do work out very, very hard in whether or not
link |
01:31:19.860
it's aerobic or resistance training or sport of any kind,
link |
01:31:23.320
your brain won't function as well afterwards,
link |
01:31:25.380
mostly because of the diversion of oxygen
link |
01:31:27.540
to tissues away from your brain.
link |
01:31:29.860
You actually are getting less oxygen to your brain.
link |
01:31:31.840
But in general, most of us feel that if we exercise
link |
01:31:33.860
regularly, our brain functions better.
link |
01:31:36.100
But there are activities that extend beyond linear exercise,
link |
01:31:40.260
beyond just generating the same sets of movements
link |
01:31:43.020
over and over again, whether or not it's exercise or not.
link |
01:31:45.380
And that's really what play is.
link |
01:31:47.340
Play is about dynamically exploring
link |
01:31:50.220
different kinds of movements,
link |
01:31:52.200
dynamically exploring different kinds of thoughts,
link |
01:31:54.540
dynamically exploring different kinds of roles
link |
01:31:57.740
that one could adopt.
link |
01:31:59.400
And that is the way that the brain learns new things.
link |
01:32:02.560
So I encourage you to explore chess.
link |
01:32:04.580
I intend to learn chess this year.
link |
01:32:05.940
I'm very excited to do that.
link |
01:32:07.340
Now, if you already play chess
link |
01:32:09.140
and you are an expert chess player,
link |
01:32:11.060
you actually will derive less benefit
link |
01:32:13.820
in terms of this play-induced neuroplasticity
link |
01:32:16.940
than you would, for instance, if you went out and,
link |
01:32:19.580
I don't know, played a game of soccer
link |
01:32:20.980
or did something that was very novel for your nervous system
link |
01:32:23.580
because in that novelty and in that exploration
link |
01:32:26.860
of new behaviors and new ways of thinking,
link |
01:32:29.740
you are opening the portal to plasticity.
link |
01:32:31.980
Whereas in doing what you already know how to do
link |
01:32:34.140
and trying just to perform better and better at it,
link |
01:32:37.100
you will get better at chess.
link |
01:32:38.740
But again, that's just chess.
link |
01:32:40.740
You are not expanding the realms
link |
01:32:42.780
in which you can become more plastic,
link |
01:32:45.960
that you are able to learn new things in relationship,
link |
01:32:49.420
in life, in finance, in friendship, et cetera.
link |
01:32:52.020
In researching this episode,
link |
01:32:53.500
one of the most interesting areas I discovered
link |
01:32:56.240
was this notion of personal play identity.
link |
01:32:59.460
Personal play identity is a term that,
link |
01:33:02.020
at least to my knowledge,
link |
01:33:02.980
was coined by a Turkish researcher by the name,
link |
01:33:06.900
and forgive me, I'm going to mispronounce this,
link |
01:33:09.020
is Gokhan Gunes, G-O-K-H-A-N,
link |
01:33:14.020
last name, G-U-N-E-S, and forgive me, Gokhan.
link |
01:33:18.020
And if we have any Turkish-speaking members of the audience,
link |
01:33:21.380
please put the correction in the comment section on YouTube.
link |
01:33:26.640
Make it phonetic so I can understand what it is.
link |
01:33:28.980
Please, I'd love to correct it.
link |
01:33:30.320
And apologies, or who knows?
link |
01:33:32.460
If I got it right, then it was pure luck.
link |
01:33:35.700
Gokhan Gunes has coined this term personal play identity.
link |
01:33:39.660
And the key role that personal play identity establishes
link |
01:33:44.660
in who we see ourselves as being,
link |
01:33:48.380
and not just in the context of play.
link |
01:33:50.540
Personal play identity has four well-defined dimensions.
link |
01:33:54.460
And I should say that if you're interested
link |
01:33:55.780
in learning more about this,
link |
01:33:56.840
the paper that I found particularly informative
link |
01:34:01.540
is published in Current Psychology,
link |
01:34:04.180
and the title is Personal Play Identity
link |
01:34:06.100
and the Fundamental Elements in its Developmental Process.
link |
01:34:09.260
And the author, of course, is Gokhan Gunes,
link |
01:34:11.060
G-U-N-E-S, last name.
link |
01:34:12.740
This is from 2021.
link |
01:34:14.020
So recent review.
link |
01:34:16.540
There are four components to personal play identity.
link |
01:34:20.420
How you play, your personality,
link |
01:34:24.780
socioculture and environment.
link |
01:34:27.680
So that's the third one that's together,
link |
01:34:29.220
socioculture and environment, and economics and technology.
link |
01:34:32.840
Now that sounds somewhat complex,
link |
01:34:34.460
and this paper is somewhat complex,
link |
01:34:35.940
but basically what it says is that we bring together
link |
01:34:40.380
certain aspects of ourselves
link |
01:34:42.380
and how we react to different play scenarios
link |
01:34:45.180
when we're younger.
link |
01:34:46.020
And we bring that forward into the world
link |
01:34:48.380
in all contexts as adults.
link |
01:34:50.680
To illustrate this, I'm going to ask you a question.
link |
01:34:53.720
When you were a child, let's say 10 years old,
link |
01:34:58.260
would you have considered yourself competitive?
link |
01:35:01.320
Would you have considered yourself
link |
01:35:02.820
somebody who's cooperative and realize, of course,
link |
01:35:05.020
that those are not mutually exclusive?
link |
01:35:06.980
You could be competitive and cooperative.
link |
01:35:08.980
Would you consider yourself somebody
link |
01:35:10.620
that preferred to play alone
link |
01:35:12.580
or preferred to play with one or two close friends?
link |
01:35:15.640
Or were you somebody that really enjoyed
link |
01:35:17.860
playing in large groups?
link |
01:35:20.540
Here's a key one.
link |
01:35:21.560
Were you somebody that enjoyed playing the leader
link |
01:35:25.060
in one moment and was equally okay
link |
01:35:28.320
with being a follower at a later moment?
link |
01:35:30.980
Were you okay with having your role switched
link |
01:35:33.340
midway through a game?
link |
01:35:35.180
Where do you get upset or be delighted
link |
01:35:38.540
or not care at all about having to switch teams
link |
01:35:41.180
during the middle of the game
link |
01:35:42.020
because your team was winning to even things out?
link |
01:35:45.580
You can imagine how that would play out internally.
link |
01:35:48.700
You would immediately register
link |
01:35:50.020
that you must be a valuable player
link |
01:35:51.380
because you're being moved off the winning team
link |
01:35:53.060
toward the losing team.
link |
01:35:55.280
But then again, you're now being forced
link |
01:35:56.960
to join the losing team.
link |
01:35:59.180
How did you feel about that?
link |
01:36:01.240
Were you somebody that was comfortable
link |
01:36:02.980
with other people breaking rules
link |
01:36:04.420
or perhaps even yourself breaking rules or bending rules?
link |
01:36:09.100
Kind of be able to find term.
link |
01:36:10.640
Or were you somebody that really needed
link |
01:36:13.080
to know all the rules
link |
01:36:14.040
and if everyone didn't rigidly adhere to those rules
link |
01:36:17.420
was quite disturbed by that?
link |
01:36:21.020
The number of questions goes on and on and on.
link |
01:36:22.740
And I will provide a link to a paper
link |
01:36:24.340
that asks a number of questions
link |
01:36:26.580
that helps you arrive at a sort of score of sorts
link |
01:36:29.900
or an index of what Gunes and others
link |
01:36:33.060
have referred to as personal play identity.
link |
01:36:35.620
The point is that if we look back to our early adolescence,
link |
01:36:39.500
somewhere between 10 and 14 years old,
link |
01:36:42.500
a peak time for social development,
link |
01:36:45.180
a peak time for play of various kinds,
link |
01:36:48.180
a peak time for motor development,
link |
01:36:50.660
a peak time of psychosocial development
link |
01:36:54.060
where we learn where we fit into hierarchies
link |
01:36:56.320
as we relate to members of the same sex,
link |
01:36:58.760
of the opposite sex, et cetera,
link |
01:37:00.320
we can start to get a portal into how and why
link |
01:37:04.080
we show up to various activities in work
link |
01:37:06.960
and relationship, et cetera, as adults.
link |
01:37:09.920
In fact, I'll venture to say that if we go into that process
link |
01:37:14.000
for ourselves for five or 10 minutes,
link |
01:37:15.840
you start to see some remarkable parallels
link |
01:37:18.060
between the way you were at that stage
link |
01:37:20.400
and your tendencies and your preferences as adults.
link |
01:37:24.080
We tend to look at our early childhood experiences
link |
01:37:26.840
and our families, and to some degree,
link |
01:37:28.840
our friends in terms of how we become who we become.
link |
01:37:33.780
I've talked about the incredible work of Alan Shore
link |
01:37:36.800
on previous episodes of the podcast.
link |
01:37:38.760
Alan Shore is a psychiatrist and has done extensive work
link |
01:37:43.100
on how parent-child interactions,
link |
01:37:45.440
in particular baby and mother,
link |
01:37:47.200
but also baby and father, shape the brain
link |
01:37:50.960
and the brain and emotional systems ability
link |
01:37:53.400
to go from states of elation and excitement,
link |
01:37:56.160
the so-called dopamine epinephrine type circuitry,
link |
01:37:59.720
to the more warm, soothing types of calm interactions
link |
01:38:04.000
that in broad terms could be described as more serotonin,
link |
01:38:07.280
oxytocin, and things of that sort.
link |
01:38:10.120
That work really points to the key roles
link |
01:38:12.640
that the caregiver and the child, you,
link |
01:38:16.460
engaged in in early life.
link |
01:38:18.300
And that is incredible work.
link |
01:38:19.880
I do hope to host Dr. Shore on the podcast
link |
01:38:23.120
at some point in the not too distant future.
link |
01:38:25.980
But equally important, of course,
link |
01:38:28.120
are the interactions that we export
link |
01:38:30.360
from that early laying down of biological circuitry
link |
01:38:34.040
and psychological circuitry
link |
01:38:35.800
to the way we play by ourselves
link |
01:38:38.320
and the way we play with others,
link |
01:38:41.080
in small numbers or in great numbers.
link |
01:38:43.240
And of course it would be the case
link |
01:38:45.680
that how we played as a 10 or 12-year-old
link |
01:38:48.560
would impact how we behave as a 16-year-old
link |
01:38:51.040
and as a 20-year-old and as a 30-year-old
link |
01:38:53.240
and so on and so on.
link |
01:38:55.440
One of my favorite things about developmental biology
link |
01:38:58.220
and developmental psychology
link |
01:38:59.820
is that it is grounded in the fact
link |
01:39:01.400
that we don't just have a childhood and an adulthood.
link |
01:39:04.360
There isn't just our child self and our adult self.
link |
01:39:07.080
And even though there are transitions around the mechanisms
link |
01:39:09.840
that underlie neuroplasticity at approximately age 25,
link |
01:39:14.720
it is simply the case that development
link |
01:39:17.440
is our entire lifespan,
link |
01:39:19.000
that our lifespan is one long developmental arc.
link |
01:39:22.540
How long depends on our genetics, our lifestyle,
link |
01:39:25.840
accidents, injury, and disease, of course,
link |
01:39:28.680
but it is one long developmental arc.
link |
01:39:31.560
And so it shouldn't surprise us at all
link |
01:39:33.280
that how we learn to play as a 10-year-old or 12-year-old
link |
01:39:36.120
would impact how we play and interact with people
link |
01:39:39.040
as a teenager and a young adult and on and on and on.
link |
01:39:43.880
And that play is the place in which we explore
link |
01:39:46.680
and which we learn.
link |
01:39:48.040
Play is the substrate by which our nervous system changes us
link |
01:39:51.840
from this hyper-connected batch of neurons
link |
01:39:55.520
where everything is connected to everything, more or less,
link |
01:39:58.900
to a brain and nervous system
link |
01:40:01.800
whereby certain circuits work with immense proficiency
link |
01:40:05.400
and others are less accessible to us.
link |
01:40:07.800
But again, the wonderful thing about the human nervous system
link |
01:40:11.120
is that because it is plastic for the entire lifespan
link |
01:40:16.600
and because these two elements of focus and rest
link |
01:40:19.300
can be deployed again and again and again,
link |
01:40:21.960
just because neural circuits didn't form
link |
01:40:23.960
does not mean that they can't form later in life.
link |
01:40:26.960
And today we've been focusing on how play itself,
link |
01:40:31.000
the same substrate that we use during development
link |
01:40:33.340
to become who we are,
link |
01:40:34.920
is the portal by which we can change who we are
link |
01:40:37.500
for the better.
link |
01:40:38.520
So I hope I've convinced you that play
link |
01:40:40.400
is an extremely important fundamental
link |
01:40:43.120
homeostatically regulated aspect of our nervous system,
link |
01:40:46.360
which is just a mouthful of nerd speak to say,
link |
01:40:50.060
play can change your brain for the better.
link |
01:40:52.560
And that is true for every stage of life.
link |
01:40:55.240
The recommendation that I make,
link |
01:40:57.060
and certainly the one that I'm going to direct it myself
link |
01:40:59.720
as well, is to try and engage in at least one hour
link |
01:41:04.320
of pure play per week.
link |
01:41:06.620
Now, I came to that recommendation
link |
01:41:08.800
because of the literature that says,
link |
01:41:11.160
well, you need to engage in something pretty repetitively.
link |
01:41:14.340
It should be novel.
link |
01:41:15.560
So this wouldn't be something
link |
01:41:16.760
that you are exceptionally good at already.
link |
01:41:19.400
If you insist on doing something
link |
01:41:21.120
that you're already exceptionally good at,
link |
01:41:23.080
then you want to really do some free form,
link |
01:41:25.860
low stakes tinkering.
link |
01:41:27.560
So make it safe, but make it free form.
link |
01:41:30.760
So really explore things with that.
link |
01:41:32.760
Some people call this beginner's mind,
link |
01:41:34.480
although I find that a little abstract.
link |
01:41:36.040
I like the notion of beginner's mind,
link |
01:41:37.440
but it's sort of like,
link |
01:41:38.260
how do you know if you're in beginner's mind?
link |
01:41:39.640
I think beginner's mind is sort of the expectation
link |
01:41:41.960
that you're not going to do it well yet,
link |
01:41:44.240
but play extends beyond beginner's mind.
link |
01:41:47.120
Play is really about not even worrying
link |
01:41:49.240
if you're going to get good at it
link |
01:41:50.620
or really proficient at it.
link |
01:41:52.120
It's really about exploring contingencies
link |
01:41:54.720
with truly low stakes.
link |
01:41:56.240
That's what will allow you to access
link |
01:41:57.960
these neurochemical combinations
link |
01:42:00.000
of elevated endogenous opioids, low epinephrine, et cetera,
link |
01:42:03.160
that will open up neuroplasticity.
link |
01:42:05.560
For those of you that need a little more guidance
link |
01:42:07.360
on how to play, there's a book out there.
link |
01:42:10.080
I actually learned about this from Tim Ferriss' blog.
link |
01:42:12.560
It's called Play It Away, A Workaholic's Cure for Anxiety.
link |
01:42:15.800
So that's more focused on anxiety.
link |
01:42:17.140
The author is Charlie Hone, last name H-O-E-H-N.
link |
01:42:22.440
We'll provide a link for it in the show notes and caption,
link |
01:42:24.360
Play It Away, A Workaholic's Cure for Anxiety.
link |
01:42:27.620
But books and other resources aside,
link |
01:42:30.920
I think one hour of play per week
link |
01:42:32.800
is a reasonable amount of time
link |
01:42:34.960
to engage in dedicated play behavior
link |
01:42:37.760
for the purpose of opening up these neural circuits
link |
01:42:40.760
for plasticity.
link |
01:42:42.440
The key feature, of course,
link |
01:42:43.540
is to not have immense proficiency in that given activity,
link |
01:42:47.200
or at least not the way you perform it.
link |
01:42:49.040
And if you do gain proficiency in that activity,
link |
01:42:52.280
well, then it becomes something else.
link |
01:42:53.600
It's no longer about play, it's about performance.
link |
01:42:56.600
So in that case,
link |
01:42:57.520
you would then want to adopt a new play behavior.
link |
01:43:00.700
You'll notice that I largely avoided
link |
01:43:02.320
using the word fun throughout this episode.
link |
01:43:05.020
Fun is a somewhat abstract term,
link |
01:43:06.880
and like many emotions and many verbal descriptions
link |
01:43:11.600
of experience, it falls short
link |
01:43:13.840
in the context of a neurobiological discussion about play.
link |
01:43:17.880
If you have fun, terrific.
link |
01:43:19.660
Some people might find, however,
link |
01:43:21.240
that engaging in play is kind of uncomfortable.
link |
01:43:23.740
Well, there your goal then
link |
01:43:24.800
should be to lower your level of discomfort
link |
01:43:26.920
by focusing less on the outcomes
link |
01:43:29.000
and just simply engaging in the behavior
link |
01:43:31.020
because, well, I'm telling you that it's good for you,
link |
01:43:34.040
but hopefully you will tell yourself that it's good for you
link |
01:43:36.080
and that you will experience that it's good for you.
link |
01:43:38.680
The literature certainly points to that,
link |
01:43:41.700
and the literature certainly points to the fact
link |
01:43:44.340
that play is the way that we are built.
link |
01:43:46.760
We are built to play.
link |
01:43:48.620
We have brain circuits from back to front
link |
01:43:51.780
and within our body that are there for play,
link |
01:43:54.140
and they don't disappear.
link |
01:43:55.280
They do not get pruned away
link |
01:43:57.180
as we go from development to adulthood.
link |
01:43:59.200
So if ever you needed a neurobiological explanation
link |
01:44:02.060
for why play is important throughout the lifespan,
link |
01:44:04.860
it's that.
link |
01:44:05.900
It's that biology does not waste resources.
link |
01:44:08.700
It's extremely efficient.
link |
01:44:10.280
And were the circuits for play
link |
01:44:13.060
not to be important in adulthood,
link |
01:44:14.800
they would have been pruned away,
link |
01:44:16.100
but I guarantee you they are there
link |
01:44:17.660
in your brain and nervous system now.
link |
01:44:19.740
They will be there tomorrow,
link |
01:44:20.720
and they will be there going forward.
link |
01:44:22.320
So my suggestion is that you use them one hour per week.
link |
01:44:25.940
If you're learning from and are enjoying this podcast,
link |
01:44:28.480
please subscribe to our YouTube channel.
link |
01:44:30.420
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link |
01:44:33.160
In addition, please subscribe to the podcast
link |
01:44:35.500
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link |
01:44:37.520
And on Apple, you have the opportunity
link |
01:44:39.200
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link |
01:44:41.660
Please leave us comments and suggestions and feedback,
link |
01:44:44.760
including suggestions for future podcast guests
link |
01:44:47.900
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link |
01:44:49.540
We do read all those comments.
link |
01:44:52.040
Please also check out the sponsors mentioned
link |
01:44:53.900
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link |
01:44:55.100
That's the best way to support this podcast.
link |
01:44:57.660
We also have a Patreon.
link |
01:44:59.100
It's patreon.com slash Andrew Huberman.
link |
01:45:02.200
And there you can support the podcast
link |
01:45:03.820
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link |
01:45:05.820
If you're not already following us on Twitter and Instagram,
link |
01:45:08.460
we are Huberman Lab on Twitter
link |
01:45:09.880
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link |
01:45:12.680
On Instagram, I do short posts that are related
link |
01:45:15.960
to topics covered on the podcast,
link |
01:45:17.940
but also some additional topics.
link |
01:45:19.580
So these would include science-based tools
link |
01:45:21.840
for things like focus, for sleep, for learning,
link |
01:45:23.940
and many other topics as well.
link |
01:45:25.820
In previous episodes of the Huberman Lab podcast,
link |
01:45:28.520
we often refer to supplements.
link |
01:45:30.380
Now supplements aren't necessary or correct for everybody,
link |
01:45:33.540
but many people derive tremendous benefit from them
link |
01:45:36.100
for things like sleep and focus and so on.
link |
01:45:39.020
We've partnered with Thorne, that's T-H-O-R-I-N-E,
link |
01:45:42.100
because Thorne supplements are of the very highest quality
link |
01:45:44.900
in terms of the ingredients they use
link |
01:45:46.580
and the specificity of the amounts of the ingredients
link |
01:45:49.740
that are listed on the bottle
link |
01:45:51.020
are actually what is in those bottles,
link |
01:45:53.380
which is not the case for many supplement brands out there.
link |
01:45:56.220
If you're interested in seeing the supplements that I take,
link |
01:45:58.220
you can go to thorne.com slash the letter U slash Huberman.
link |
01:46:01.980
So that's T-H-O-R-N-E.com slash the letter U slash Huberman.
link |
01:46:07.760
And those supplements you can purchase at 20% off.
link |
01:46:10.660
And if you navigate deeper into the Thorne site
link |
01:46:13.060
through that URL portal,
link |
01:46:14.900
you can also get 20% off any of the other supplements
link |
01:46:17.600
that Thorne makes.
link |
01:46:18.580
Thank you once again for joining me for this discussion
link |
01:46:21.120
about the incredible biology and psychology
link |
01:46:23.700
and power of this thing that we call play.
link |
01:46:26.620
And last, but certainly not least,
link |
01:46:28.860
thank you for your interest in science.
link |
01:46:30.620
I'll see you next time.